SAM out classing all other DPS

[Ryaz]

Except half of what you say is completely invalid. Yoshi gives no care about defensive increases.



Your raise example means absolutely nothing because it's not what jobs are balanced around. And yes a slashing debuff is utility. You can apply it which allows others not to. Much how a NIN used to just be able to avoid applying his if a WAR was in the party.

Well, things like Raise SHOULD be taken into account. Even if BLMs were fixed to deal the same damage as a RDM (or even a little more), no one will take BLMs because they bring nothing extra to the table. A RDM's ability to Raise players and do s little healing can save the group from wiping. That's a pretty big deal. Ignoring the fact that they can do that is a huge mistake on any designers part.

[Elnidfse]

Well, things like Raise SHOULD be taken into account. Even if BLMs were fixed to deal the same damage as a RDM (or even a little more), no one will take BLMs because they bring nothing extra to the table. A RDM's ability to Raise players and do s little healing can save the group from wiping. That's a pretty big deal. Ignoring the fact that they can do that is a huge mistake on any designers part.

Raise SHOULD not be taken into account. rDPS increases are always available. Somebody doesn't always die. And no. Nobody takes BLM because their DPS is terrible. You shouldn't balance around something that you won't be using in all of your fights. It's not even a bad balance decision. It'd be as useless and dumb as balancing around palisade or dismantle. If the healers are competent the raid is competent, neither of your tools are used, but people with static rDPS increases or high personal DPS won't just lose these abilities as they are always applicable.

[Dralonis]

Well, things like Raise SHOULD be taken into account. Even if BLMs were fixed to deal the same damage as a RDM (or even a little more), no one will take BLMs because they bring nothing extra to the table. A RDM's ability to Raise players and do s little healing can save the group from wiping. That's a pretty big deal. Ignoring the fact that they can do that is a huge mistake on any designers part.

imo RDM only is dealing more damage on the norm in susano due to how much mobility there is in the fight. Their utility can Depends on dps checks. However, BLM's need a good tuning and more dps imo. I'd imagine BLM's will be great around 4.2, but unless they make some drastic changes, I don't think I'll see them all that much in raids atm. SMN's are too taxing if you die, if you nerf rdm, there's little to no reason to have a caster roll lol. you need to buff the others to be as good as rdm in some respective field/way. All BLM's have right now is AOE.

[Esoterikk]

I think if you nerf SAM damage you have to add Utility which will make them a required class alongside NIN anyway where as they are optional right now? If you nerf their damage and don't give them utility they wont be brought.

[Elnidfse]

I think if you nerf SAM damage you have to add Utility which will make them a required class alongside NIN anyway where as they are optional right now? If you nerf their damage and don't give them utility they wont be brought.

Let's not pretend this is even remotely true. Even if they were to put them on DMG comparable to Ninja's right now but remove their RDPS they would still not be excluded from parties to the extent that a certain two non melee jobs are. And if you're so worried about not being brought you should get in line behind WHM, BLM, MCH, DRG, and SMN. Because you seem to think that SAM should flat out be better and always have a guaranteed spot in every comp always.

[ElasmoFan]

Let's not pretend this is even remotely true. Even if they were to put them on DMG comparable to Ninja's right now but remove their RDPS they would still not be excluded from parties to the extent that a certain two non melee jobs are. And if you're so worried about not being brought you should get in line behind WHM, BLM, MCH, DRG, and SMN. Because you seem to think that SAM should flat out be better and always have a guaranteed spot in every comp always.

They've flat out said that there's a higher potency for those that don't bring the utility and it's not gonna be a negligible amount. Even if they get nerfed, it's not gonna be anywhere near the level you seem to think they will. They're not going to be put at the same potency level as a job like Ninja but not have the same amount of utility. It's not gonna happen.

[Elnidfse]

They've flat out said that there's a higher potency for those that don't bring the utility and it's not gonna be a negligible amount. Even if they get nerfed, it's not gonna be anywhere near the level you seem to think they will. They're not going to be put at the same potency level as a job like Ninja but not have the same amount of utility. It's not gonna happen.

The phrase "even if" was a what if scenario. Of course I nor anybody else think they're going to be placed at ninja's levels of potency (which you for some reason believe is low). But let's not cling to the support clause like it's some bible when an abomination like DRG is allowed to exist in this game with how disgustingly weak it is. A sam should not be a guaranteed spot. Period. And for that matter there should be no concept of a guaranteed spot to begin with.

[ElasmoFan]

some of those jobs just.. I don't even understand what could have possibly gone wrong to even get to this point.

[MiruWest]

Let's not pretend this is even remotely true. Even if they were to put them on DMG comparable to Ninja's right now but remove their RDPS they would still not be excluded from parties to the extent that a certain two non melee jobs are. And if you're so worried about not being brought you should get in line behind WHM, BLM, MCH, DRG, and SMN. Because you seem to think that SAM should flat out be better and always have a guaranteed spot in every comp always.

Tf? NIN and MNK are right behind SAM in terms of damage. SAM does not have a solidified slot in a raid, NIN is literally the ONLY melee with a guaranteed spot atm. DRG/SMN/MCH are the only classes atm that things look bleak for, every other class can find a slot.

To say you dont count Raise as utility is bs. A RDM can do the same DPS as a BLM with alot less effort, but what pushes RDM over? Embolden and Raise, which will be a good send in prog.