SAM out classing all other DPS

[Astrololol]

Now, I've only skimmed through the last couple of pages, but, it was very funny to see Samurai mains telling the rest of us to "Stop asking SE for SAM nerfs", while having an air of conceit.
Why shouldn't SE nerf your SB main class? Do you not want to be in our shoes, and possibly be sub-par compared to another dps class? :3c

Despite it being annoying to deal with BOTD/LOTD with groups who sit around twiddling their thumbs, I'm still going to main Dragoon. Having to resort to playing a class that doesn't really interest me isn't my thing. I'm used to playing "not as great as the rest" classes, from another MMO I used to play, anyways, so /shrug
Even though the Nastrond mechanic isn't really a matter of class DPS though, it's more of just a "this mechanic has multiple flaws within it".
If they made LOTD different, I would welcome the change.

[Dualgunner]

I think they just don't wanna end up Stormblood's 3.x Monk ^u^

[silentwindfr]

i still feel (and i have said it on another thread) that we forget a few utility the blm have as caster, like the mana transfert or apocastasis

[Galvuu]

i still feel (and i have said it on another thread) that we forget a few utility the blm have as caster, like the mana transfert or apocastasis

Every caster as apoc. Apocatastasis adds 0 value to BLM compared to RDM or SMN.
I answered you on the other thread, but I'll reiterate here:
BLM is unquestionably the best Mana Shifter in the game. They can afford to do it on cd with almost no loss.
That's actually not very useful at all though. It's about as useful as SAM's slashing debuff (it's useless). Neither should have much weight in balancing.
Further, as a RDM, I can afford to Mana Shift once per 3~4 minutes unless I'm rezing people left and right (but if I'm handling that, odds are my healers don't need the mana).
Plus, a BRD or MCH is a much better mp battery than we are (I never need to manashift if they're in the party).

[Elnidfse]

i still feel (and i have said it on another thread) that we forget a few utility the blm have as caster, like the mana transfert or apocastasis

Except that "utility" isn't what a job is balanced around. And if we're going to bring up apocatastasis and mana shift we might as well bring up Goad and Feint.

[silentwindfr]

goad outside aoe have no utility, when the mana shift can help a healer that is low in mana because of rez and such...in long fight, with the different reduction of cost of tp they have give, invigorate is enough.
and feint most of the time don't work on most monster around.... they are junk skill mostly aimed to pvp since they don't want to make debuff a thing important.

they are balanced around any buff they can bring to the group, from yoshida himself and more important about the fact that the fight can affect your capacity to dps. the blm and such deal more damage per skill for this reason, for cover the time when they need to move. at how much hit a fire 3 or fire 4? you will see that outside midare, most of our skill will be far below... and even midare is asking for a huge setup of 8 GCD (if you don't use meikyo) what ask fire 4? enochian, that can be keep forever now and just a simple fire 3 for get the 3 stack.... 1gcd and 1 skill out gcd... blm have a good dps, that is fiting is role... people need to stop to expect the blm to be top dps, it will never happend, if that was happening it will be the death of every melee.

we had this situation at the release of ARR, when the raid was ranged only... every melee not taken, because the difference in damage was not enough for cover the damage they was expected to take. too much risk not enough gain.

plus i have already pointed that the difference of dps is not that important between ranged and melee, only the sam get a lot more, but for get it, it ask setup and perfect execution. what is far to be simple in many fight.

but i digress...all this debat is because the meta did changed and people hate change... they wasn't expecting a new top dps from the new jobs, big deal if it was not the sam it will have been the monk like always. and in the end, what is important is not the meta but what your group decide to bring, they can play it safe and take only ranged dps and still do well. depending of the skill of the player they can even beat a team that have the "perfect" team. people need to stop to act like children... some jobs really need work on, and the blm is not one of them.

DRG, SMN and MCH need to be worked on, DRK need to be worked on... SCH need some love too...
but blm don't...

[magnanimousCynic]

but blm don't...

I think we do if our best rotation (3.0v2) doesn't cast B4 outside of Opener or Triplecast + LL.

I'm not asking for BLM to be better than SAM, but Umbral Hearts need to do more if we want our SB rotation to beat our 'new' HW rotation.

[Elnidfse]

when the raid was ranged only.

Different time with different mechanics. And it was more 4 BRD than it was 4 BLM. Let's be realistic here.

they are balanced around any buff they can bring to the group, from yoshida himself

Uh what? No

THIS is what Yoshida says himself


http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...80#post4263080

I already touched upon this in my previous LIVE letter, but I'd like to take the opportunity to clarify balance among DPS roles.

Recently, samurai damage has been the subject of much debate, prompting many comparisons between jobs. In bringing samurai in line with other jobs, however, we not only look at solo damage values, but take all of the following into account:

1. Damage dealt when solo.
2. Susceptibility to mechanics (jobs affected more by mechanics deal slightly more solo damage, and vice versa).
3. Ability to raise a full party's total damage.

For instance, dragoon can greatly increase party members' damage, but deals less solo damage than samurai. In contrast, samurai boasts high solo damage, but cannot do much to increase party damage. Things such as the aforementioned susceptibility and the ability to perform ranged attacks are also considered.

We can't say with absolute certainty that the values will be perfect from the start, and it will be difficult to get a feel for the adjustments before they are released alongside Omega: Deltascape (Savage). For now, we will work towards applying those changes deemed necessary to 4.05, and we look forward to your feedback after you have played the raid.

Nowhere does he mention defensive buffs. You know what he does mention? The ability to increase rDPS. You know who also doesn't have the ability to increase rDPS? BLM. So NO. BLM is not fine.

but i digress...all this debate is because the meta did changed and people hate change...

This is happening because people hate the lack of balance. Change has nothing to do with the fact that something is so blatantly unbalanced.

[silentwindfr]

where is unbalanced? a melee outdpsing a ranged? it's like this because it balanced....

a ranged will never be on par with a melee... it was never even in HW the top dps was not a ranged. and it like this for a fair reason... melee must take risk, what the ranged don't need to do. yes, when they move they need to stop dps... great new we need to move far more than you since we can loose dps only by not attacking the right place.

blm will never be on par with SAM you can be sure of this let's wait the live letter or even the patch of tuesday...

I think we do if our best rotation (3.0v2) doesn't cast B4 outside of Opener or Triplecast + LL.

I'm not asking for BLM to be better than SAM, but Umbral Hearts need to do more if we want our SB rotation to beat our 'new' HW rotation.

you realize that some jobs still use the same rotation for age... i will take the monk by example, yes they did get buff that can be droped for up the dps... but all in all, the rotation of the monk did even become simpler than before HW... they did take out 2 potential dot (was expected) leading to a rotation that didn't move outside loose this two dot. the same rotation since ARR.... with two dot less.... amazing! *sighs* i will not pretend to have the knowledge about umbral heart trouble, simply saying this... BLM is not the top priority of the jobs needing attention and like i don't stop to say it, will never be on par with sam.

[Elnidfse]

where is unbalanced

Dragoons exist

a ranged will never be on par with a melee...

A BLM with no job utility should also not be doing less personal DPS than a RDM, never you mind their relation to Ninjas

even in HW the top dps was not a ranged.

That's not even remotely true
Post 3.2 MCH absolutely crushed DPS in most fights on average. It should never be that way, yes, but you're still wrong.

melee must take risk, what the ranged don't need to

Moving 10 yalms to circle behind the boss while still attacking and not being able to attack at all debunk that entire example.

great new we need to move far more than you since we can loose dps only by not attacking the right place.

You do know that there are mechanics that require movement regardless of your proximity to the boss, correct?