Consolidated White Mage 4.0 Feedback Thread

[Gemina]

If Divine Benison has the same effect at 1 lily as it does at 3 lilies, it should just always cost 1 lily.

The lily gauge currently just doesn't work that way, which is why you have to plan in advance. The update of Cure 2 giving a 100% lily proc changes the dynamic so much, which is why I was saying that it would be OP to tie lilies to the spells we cast the most. Especially if the update to CD reduction also remain (10%, 25%, 50%)

So long as Divine Benison is off CD, you can basically cast it at your leisure by casting Cure 2 since you only need one lily to cast it. This roided Stoneskin is every bit as available to WHMs as instant Veraise is for RDMs. You simply find the best available candidate to slap your cure spell on, and then fire off your ability. It is about perspective at this point, and no matter how you look at it, you have to spend MP in order to cast Divine Benison. It is balanced since Cure 1 is RNG, and Cure 2 is guaranteed, but at a much higher MP cost. I don't raid, so I don't know how useful this is. But being able to increase everyone's HP indirectly by 15% sounds pretty useful to me, especially if a big hit to the raid is coming.

As a matter of fact, I would think using up a 3-lily CD reduction on Divine Benison would be a total waste. It would be best to reduce the CD of Assize, Tetra, or Asylum if you have accumulated that many since you would likely only need Divine Benison once per boss battle, and you only need one lily to cast it. In this situation, I would use up the three lilies on the ability I believe would help best to have sooner, cast Cure 2 and then use up that lily on Divine Benison. This is what a guaranteed proc rate does for you. It changes things entirely.

[Exiled_Tonberry]

(10%, 25%, 50%)

Just wanted to clear a couple things up just in case.

Lily CD reduction is only confirmed to be those values in PvP. Currently, the values in PvE are 4%, 10% and 20%. They specifically mentioned that the PvP values are not the same as the PvE values.

Also Bension is single target, not aoe.

Now about casting Cure II for a quick Bension. I can't stress enough that hardcasting Cure spells is something healers try to do the LEAST of in raiding.
The less unnecessary direct healing you do, the more damage you're doing. The more damage you're doing, the more you're contributing to the raid. This is especially true for WHM because they offer nothing else outside of direct damage. So the thought of doing a quick Cure II and putting up Bension is not very optimal. Not to mention tank busters come out at set intervals, so you'll want to save your mitigation for that moment. Yet with lilies, using any other oGCD will revoke your access to Bension. The whole system just kinda works against itself. It's almost impressive >_>

This is not even getting into Confessions...

[Gemina]

What will ultimately determine what happens with White Mage going forward is player interest. If there is a fairly rapid decline in people clearing content with White Mage or PF does lock it out, you'll see changes. Sadly, unless the backlash is overwhelming, I doubt we will see much before 4.1.

I think the WHMs who enjoy casual content will be fine. There are a lot them, since WHM remains a very basic healer that has the best adaptability for all three tanks in dungeons from my experience.

If the general community looked at WHM like the healer for casual content, then this wouldn't even be an issue. Sometimes I think that is what it is. AST is advanced healing in my eyes due to their card mechanic. Same healing power as WHM, but those wanting to take their game further will take on AST since now you factor in RNG, which really makes things interesting. The option to go SCH is there as well even if only for MP free heals. I know those who love WHM (believe me, I do TOO!) want any combination of healers to be optimal, but this is so difficult to achieve with three, and super easy with two. We are not ready for a fourth healing job until this gets figured out.

But folks, it isn't entirely on the devs. We have to meet them in the middle somewhere. Part of the solution is not being part of the problem. The lily mechanic even in its worst state that would be dead on arrival still shows that at least some thought was put into improving WHM. I don't want to take anything away from those who have given suggestions how to improve WHM by any means. There has been some really good ones. I just wish doomsayers would stop casting doom. It brings so much negativity, and no one benefits from it.

[Reiryuu]

But folks, it isn't entirely on the devs. We have to meet them in the middle somewhere. Part of the solution is not being part of the problem. The lily mechanic even in its worst state that would be dead on arrival still shows that at least some thought was put into improving WHM. I don't want to take anything away from those who have given suggestions how to improve WHM by any means. There has been some really good ones. I just wish doomsayers would stop casting doom. It brings so much negativity, and no one benefits from it.

Except no, no it doesn't. It feels like something they were like... uh... Oh! right healers need something. WHM any ideas? Uh.... flowers? I like it! It has no synergy with our job, it doesn't have any lucrative reward for doing so, it has no way of determining when or which skill you want to use the lilies on, and you can literally play the job just like you have always been and never even know it was there and it works far better in PVP than it does in PVE (going on what friends of mine who do PVP said here, I don't and most likely never will PVP in FFXIV.)

Look at literally all the other jobs other than the healers. They actually work for them you play your job as you always have, you build up your gauge, you get cool new abilities to use with said gauge. Really, all the healer UIs seem to just be tossed on because... other jobs got them... so they need something too... but the devs had no real idea what to give them and then just for $hits and giggles, they decided to throw some random mechanic on WHMs gauge and give us the buffs to manage (confessions) the UI elements were supposed to do away with in the first place except these buffs are on the entire party not you like stacks of greased lightning, etc. were on the DPS jobs.

[Gemina]

Just wanted to clear a couple things up just in case.

Lily CD reduction is only confirmed to be those values in PvP. Currently, the values in PvE are 4%, 10% and 20%. They specifically mentioned that the PvP values are not the same as the PvE values.

Also Bension is single target, not aoe.

Thanks for clearing things up. I can see how I mixed things up.

Now about casting Cure II for a quick Bension. I can't stress enough that hardcasting Cure spells is something healers try to do the LEAST of in raiding. The less unnecessary direct healing you do, the more damage you're doing. The more damage you're doing, the more you're contributing to the raid. This is especially true for WHM because they offer nothing else outside of direct damage.

Here's the thing. This is true in ALL content. No matter what content you are playing in, if you are doing this, you are playing optimally. The only difference between raiding and casual is the former requires optimal play.

So the thought of doing a quick Cure II and putting up Bension is not very optimal. Not to mention tank busters come out at set intervals, so you'll want to save your mitigation for that moment. Yet with lilies, using any other oGCD will revoke your access to Bension. The whole system just kinda works against itself. It's almost impressive >_>

This still remains unchanged for the most part. The idea behind my post with Benison is that it is NOT optimal to use it with three lilies, and in fact, anything more than 1 lily is a waste. Here's the thing: If you're in a situation where you need/want to cast Benison, chances are EXTREMELY likely you're relying on Cure 2 to keep the tank alive anyway. At the very least, it lets you conserve Benediction and Tetra, or is there if they are on CD to give you some breathing room. Despite all the "lack of healing required" clamed on the forums. My experiences show that we have to heal as required, which can be extensive to not at all.

As for Confessions. Trust me, I have my own thoughts on those too. But they have nothing to do with the lily mechanic.

[Jxnibbles]

Why do people constantly bring up Whm being the "Casual Healer.." It is not a valid reponse.

Whm needs tools as well and should have a equal chance of being looked at by raiders progressing as well.

Seriously stop acting like Sch and Astro requires a Masters in Science.

Also Paladin is consider to be an easy Tank and look at it now. It seems to be in a very good spot going into SB.

Every job is easy when you take the time to learn it stop putting other classes on a pedastal because more players prefer Whm.

[winsock]

Something that could work for WHM:
* Make regen's ticks' heals similar to cure (II) in terms of lilies, CD reduction, and confession.
* Buff the amount of CD reduction from lil
* Move Regen off GCD, keep it's recast.

Now WHM has nice healing potential while in DPS rotation and the new job system will help WHMs regardless of whether or not they are focusing on DPS or heals

[IttyBitty]

Benison is garbage because it is gating an incredibly important skill that needs to be available on demand behind a proc gate and CD. WHM is left without any single target mitigation until level 66, when we previously had it at 34.

They need to give us back Stoneskin, either at 18% (Graniteskin) or 15%. Turn Benison a 10% AoE shield, making it the inverse of Indomitability. This will give WHM something -new- and -actually desirable-, instead of making it feel like they've taken away one of our toys, given it a new coat of paint and put a new price tag on it.

"Easy accessible" or "basic healer" needn't mean "completely braindead". You can have a low bar for entry without a stupidly low skill ceiling. All that will do is make high end players migrate to other classes...which seems to be happening right now. The Lily system as we currently know it is going to incentivise bad play at the low end. The class is going to turn into a massive newb trap.

[javid]

This thread never sleeps....

A ton of max ilv, echo savage healers, keep pushing this false notion that you apply more regens and ogcd heals than cure I & cure II 's....

One guy went as far as to pull my own 10-15% echo WHM parses with a sch and another with an AST, on one of the lowest required HPS fights in savage, to prove this false notion.... and the best he was able to do is find 2 examples where regen+ medica II's where comparable to cure I & cure II....

For those of you who have done savage pre echo (progression gear up to max ilv), you know you are casting a significant amount of cure I & II's ( or Benefic & Benefic II's) compared to regens & ogcd Heals and not just due to mistakes; I'm talking scripted sequences of incoming single target dmg. The only exception to this is when your co-healer is a sch b/c the pets embrace is considered a very potent "regen" that's basically always in effect. Fun fact they have applied yet another [well-needed] nerf to Embrace for SB.

There is a ton of stuff we just don't know yet, one of the biggest things we don't know is CONTENT!! SE can make (and has made) content that stresses healing capacity. Any serious and prolonged healing sequence implemented in game will give the raiding community a renewed appreciation for King AOE, WHM!

A1S, pre echo, was a Healer's fight! - raid dmg ---> prey---> raid dmg; or raid dmg --->prey --->tankbuster! You had to deal with one of these sequences per min. Let me see you regen/medica II ONLY, healers, deal with these mech without several deaths and wipes...

AST POV- you can tell by their max HP that they're in semi progression gear. (timestamp 2:07-2:55 an example of a serious healing sequence that occurs often)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvtHjzKLOf8




BRD POV- also in progression gear, but whm present (timestamp 1:44-2:44 an example of a serious healing sequence that occurs often)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ov-VBBy9nOM





Here is the ultimate Midas serious healing sequences: A8S (ignore all the re-positioning mech just focus on the raw Inc dmg....)

WHM POV- well geared group. (Time stamp 12:03-13:08 an extreme example of a serious healing sequence)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HCoEImNWL0&t=121s

AST POV- well geared group. (time stamp 11:48-12:52 an extreme example of a serious healing sequence)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3_of-h4xQo







The point of these videos is to demonstrate SE in the past has made content that took advantage of Strong heals. Also these videos are examples of what you exclusive Medica II/regen healers could NOT accomplish ever with your, "I won't cast a Cure/Cure II in a fight" mentality...

[javid]

Benison is garbage because it is gating an incredibly important skill that needs to be available on demand behind a proc gate and CD. WHM is left without any single target mitigation until level 66, when we previously had it at 34.

you're WRONG guy.

Divine Bension DOES require a lily in order to execute and it is on a 60 sec (max) recast timer. However it is not gated behind RNG. (Correction you will never have a recast for Divine Bension over 54 sec [PvP lily reductions rates] or 58 sec [media tour lily reduction rates])

• Cure II= 100% lily
• Cure II= 100% same MP and Same GCD at your current Stoneskin
• Divine Bension is an oGCD meaning you can execute it on demand.

You had a better argument to make if you said WHM has no HP extension skills prior to 66 and in some ARR and Heavenward content (exclusively when u have a double whm setup) it is necessary for the survival of the party. We don't know if you'll need any HP extension utilties lvling from 60-66.

And to another point, not directly against you, seldom are their mech in game that require just a lil under 110% of your max HP in order to survive the mech....

The only two types of mech that takes advantage of stoneskin are the ones that require absolute absorption (T10 prey and A5S prey for examples), or the mech that deplete 100% of your max hp (for example A11S photon). Even with Weakness the majority of mech that could still kill u at 100% HP will likely still kill u at 110% hp... . Even still!! We pretend as if we're dealing with these killing mech in a Stoneskin only vacuum?? Why aren't you putting up other party mitigation--virus, storm path, red mind, dismantle, dragon kick, disable, Fey Covenant, Sacred Soil, Delirium, Collective Unconscious, etc ...... Ya'll really trying to pull this false argument that in a NON-raid content with 2 whm that you had no combination of debuffs listed above to place on the boss to assist the weaken player to survive? It was Stoneskin or death? ......RIGHT......










Another fun fact about Divine Bension vs current Stoneskin. Most time when you absolutely need a stoneskin on the MT for inc dmg, you're spaming cures to FIRST top him off. This means you'll actually SAVE a GCD if you compared current practice of top+Shield to future practice of top+Shield.

ex:
Tank has 10k out of 20k max hp

• currently you'd spam cures and ogcds to FIRST TOP HIM OFF then lastly use one more gcd to apply stoneskin.
• In the future you'll spam cures and ogcds to TOP him off and weave Divine Benison in the mix, resulting in the sequence being 1 GCD shorter than currently. AND in this scenario it also saves you MP!!!