Thread: Consolidated White Mage 4.0 Feedback Thread

Originally Posted by Cynfael

I'm not sure that I follow.
...

The difference between WHM and AST personal DPS would have to be very significant in the WHM's favor in order to grant the advantage to WHM in that area, assuming at least similar performance otherwise.

I agree completely that WHM personal dps has to be comparable to 3-5% of total raid dps OVER that of AST's personal dps in order to give WHM the raid dps equivalency. But I was talking strictly high MP usage fights. Anytime AST has to use a Ewer card for MP rather than for Royal Road, that's a raid dps loss. And WHM has better MP management than AST innately which means more consistent use of GCDs [potentially DPS GCDs].

Originally Posted by Cynfael

On the other hand, thanks to RNG, there are times when an AST will consistently pull Ewers regardless of what they would prefer, so in that sense they aren't all wasted (just unavoidable).

I agree that WHM has the potential to manage MP extremely well based on what we know of 4.0 tooltips, but I'm having a difficult time imagining an encounter where this proves a significant advantage to the WHM (when compared to a similarly skilled and geared AST or SCH) . It's not impossible, but if SE tuned a fight to the point where one healer had a clear and relevant advantage in MP management, that fight would have to be exceptionally long and/or an extraordinary healing burden.

Any of those times AST gets an unavoidable ewer is a time AST will likely NOT avg 3-5% raid dps increase. There is a direct correlation to their unavoidable mp perks and raid dps.

Also they can make shorter jump periods in fights, doesn't have to be necessarily a longer fight.

Is it reasonable to think a Skilled WHM can do 400-640 more dps than a skill AST?? NO! I don't think so ....but what about 200-300 more personal dps?? Those don't seem completely unreasonable and those kinds of numbers (200-300) could cut the AST's DPS raid contributions in HALF (from 3-5% down to a 1.5%-2.5%).

But again why are we only considering AST and WHM swapping?? I would be more concern if SCH's raid dps contribution + personal dps can offset WHM's?? B/c AST sure can double as SCH with all its utilities!!

AST/WHM

Originally Posted by CaeliaCat

Who cares if most healers don't DPS in dungeons?

You must be new here. Feel free to check any of the 1347584998 threads about lazy healers who don't DPS, which for the most part refers to DF instances.

Originally Posted by CaeliaCat

AST and SCH get BOTH their utilities to increase party DPS AND their personal DPS. With all of the ways to regenerate MP for other members, I'm EXTREMELY skeptical that MP efficiency will play a meaningful role in how much either healer can DPS in 4.0. Maybe I'm wrong though. When has FFXIV ever let us down??

I don't play AST, but do main SCH, and looking at their toolkits, I don't see how their personal DPS can even come close the WHM. Numbers will need to be ran of course, but going off theory, I just don't see it. If you have all three healers leveled, or even one other to compare to WHM, based off of theory alone though, I just don't see it. Their raid utility though does still surpass WHM simply because WHM cannot buff the DMG of others. Apparently that's what everyone wants, and I doubt they will ever get it, unless the devs find a way to incorporate an ability like Reflect.

Originally Posted by CaeliaCat

So, the BRD / MCH change is a buff. Most fights will have 1 minute or even 1.5 minutes of free mage's ballad, with no detriment to BRD / MCH damage output. That's about 10x more than I EVER heard ballad even in A12S. We also don't know if RDM will have a combo or proc to gain MP in the final build. My guess is that they will. Who cares if most healers don't DPS in dungeons? Why would that need to have ANY impact on what the toolkit should look like for balanced healer design?

let's consider your numbers.... the new MP regen (unless the numbers changed) is 30 sec up time every 3min. The avg raid fight is 8-10min. If you used the utility each time it was off CD starting at the beginning of the fight you'd have a total up time of 1- 1min 30 sec. Meanwhile CURRENT mage's ballad can be up during battle for 1min 45 sec and it would take 3min for you to regen brd's mp during combat (not anything close to the 10x times you suggested). The only advantage the new system has over the current is no dps lose....but there is significant MP potential lost in the new system.

RDM change at the last minute to include an MP regen mech? You think this is likely based on what?

The fact that you don't see the correlation between most healers not dpsing in dungeon and raid dps, says you've not been paying close enough attention.

If most healers DO not dps in dungeons.... what makes you think when those same healers enter a RAID that they are gonna change their mindset and start dpsing when the content is harder and requires more attention??

Its always about numbers. AST card system at its BEST is still not enough to displace a healers personal dps, so until you get more healers to dps it DOESN'T matter if AST's card system offers that non-dpsing healer 3-5% raid dps! Simple example to help you out.

Assume a raid DPS of 22k with AST's buffs, which means 640-1048 added dps (3-5% raid dps increase). If the AST has 0 personal dps that would mean all a WHM(any dpsing healer really) would have to do is 640-1048 personal dps and have the same total raid dps contribution that this non-dpsing AST contributed. Any AST that is outputting personal dps less than 1.3% of the total raid dps CAN be displaced by a healer able to contribute 3% of raid dps WITHOUT balance!

And this is the case for the vast majority of healers..... they don't dps! If the community at Large were a Healer DPSing community THEN it would be a different story...

Originally Posted by Reiryuu

Apparently the dev team actually wanted to remove protect from the game too lol.


http://twinfinite.net/2017/06/ffxiv-interview-e3-2017/

they could have kept it and nerfed it! instead of it being 15% added defs nerf it to 5%. Or they could have gone the PvP route of making it a buff that doesn't last 30min but only a few seconds with high mitigation and be a CD!



Also WHM's Cure III is not a JOB action; it's a class action, notice you don't see Fluid Aura, Repose etc, are we gonna consider they removed all those too?

Originally Posted by javid

Trolling.

Glad we settled that. Thanks!

Let's reconsider YOUR numbers. A minute and a half of mage's ballad beats anything players experience in reality today. Show me the bard that spends all of their MP seriously playing Mage's Ballad. And why are you so dead set comparing an AST who doesn't DPS to a WHM that does? How about this, compare a WHM that uses all abilities in their toolkit to an AST that uses all abilities in their toolkit. Everything else in your post is noise and distraction.