Thread: Consolidated White Mage 4.0 Feedback Thread

So Yoshi said something slightly worrying in a recent interview. It's not concerning WHM, or even healers, but SAM. SAM is apparently made purposely extremely strong, and to balance it they simply consider it a job for "pros" and that it's more advanced than other jobs.

The thing about this game though is, once you find your rotation and do it for a while, the difficulty in your job is almost non existent. Assuming everyone is playing at a similar skill cieling, this just means certain jobs will be stronger and offer more just because they're considered advanced from the devs.

Part of me doesn't see this as a bad thing as long as the gap in power is noticeably HUGE when playing at equal skill cielings, the other part is me looking at a job like AST and WHM, and wondering if the disparity between their usefulness and power is on purpose because they consider AST a "pro" job and WHM a more casual job. Which is just ridiculous.

Like I just said, at equal skill cielings, we should all be able to achieve a decent amount of power and fulfill a certain amount of usefulness. There shouldn't be this massive gap between AST and WHM that a well played WHM can never pass.
It's not even this bad for SCH, they have extremely powerful and useful tools that rewards smart use, which really makes me consider the idea that they randomly decided WHM is not one of the "pro" jobs and doesn't deserve to be balanced.

It's very worrying to me if certain jobs are going to suddenly be labeled as casual tier and can never progress further because of that.


Tl;dr: Even if a job is labeled advanced by the devs, other jobs played by people on similar skill levels should have a chance to be just as strong. No job, advanced or not, should have a gap in power as wide as AST vs WHM.

And sorry, this doesn't entirely have to do with this thread's topic, but just felt I should say it somewhere.

Originally Posted by Erys

Sauce, please?

https://www.bluegartr.com/threads/13...ew-Translation

Yeah. It's meant to be an extremely strong job. I mentioned it on the producer letter live, it's a difficult job, but it has great potential.

I think it's good to have jobs included for pro players. It's a type of melee job that gets better and more capable the more you play it and get used to it - it's packed with potential

Something to note is that it seems melee in general were balanced separately. SAM is on it's own level while the rest seem to be balanced using Dragoon as the balancing point.

It's impossible to tell if that's truly the case though right now, so I won't say more in that.

Sorry for getting so off topic. Probably should have made my own topic rather than clutter up the WHM feedback thread. But I posted this in regards to WHM vs AST so...

Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry

So Yoshi said something slightly worrying in a recent interview. It's not concerning WHM, or even healers, but SAM. SAM is apparently made purposely extremely strong, and to balance it they simply consider it a job for "pros" and that it's more advanced than other jobs.

The thing about this game though is, once you find your rotation and do it for a while, the difficulty in your job is almost non existent. Assuming everyone is playing at a similar skill cieling, this just means certain jobs will be stronger and offer more just because they're considered advanced from the devs.

If this is true!!! This is the point I've been making throughout the forum this whole time lol. SE rewards "harder to execute" jobs with perks (typically increase in dps). WHM is not as hard, to manage as AST or SCH... hence why WHM is less rewarding than SCH & AST.

There SHOULD BE A GAP!!!! if the WHM ceiling is lower than the AST ceiling. It shouldn't matter if both players are proficiently mastering their class! the AST has more to do so he needs more reward!! SAme thing for SCH. SCH has waaaaaaaaaaaaay more to do than WhM so SCH should be rewarded WAAAYYYY MORE!!

On the flip side; ppl you have to consider both sides, B/c jobs like WHM (and current PLD for another example) are EASIER to manage; they are more forgiving in content, more CONSISTENTLY dependable. So you'll have serious players that want to raid but understand they don't consistently have the aptitude to play jobs like SCH or future SAM optimally and safety; so they go instead WHM and MNK....and they will still be able to clear all content and enjoy the game! BUT THEY WONT GET TOP TIER RAID FFLOGS NUMBERS! And really what does logs matter?? (fyi i love logs...)

The meta will try to marginalize jobs like WHM and (current PLD and current MNK), but the nominal ffxiv mass of ppl can seldom perform at the high rate of efficiency required to make "best comp" do more dps than any other comp..... (Or do we already forget 4.0 is changing the way it is....b/c the masses found it too "hard"......... now these same ppl that found it too hard want the easier jobs to be just as rewarding as the harder jobs........)

Originally Posted by Jxnibbles

If the Devs refuse to show love to Whm ...

It's not that WHM has not received any "love"; instead it's the community (a portion of it) hasn't appreciated the "kind" of "love" SE is showing it. SE is trying to keep our beloved WHM easy to manage and highly dependable!! This is the form of love WHM and classes like it will recieve!

If ppl want a more end-game, max ilv, competitive fflogs healer out of the WHM, then EXPECT the rigorous addendum SE would be required to implement in that process! You'd no longer just have 7 cds, no longer 60 sec or longer recast, no longer GCD answers to every single mitigation requirement............UNLESS ppl want an OP healer that takes the least effort of the 3 healer options???

If the Devs refuse to show love to Whm because they decide to label it as "Casual Tier". I already see more incoming rage come 4.0 and 4.2.
Come on we have been getting slapped in the face almost every patch. Even during our job preview video we got slapped in the face. "Wow inspiring".. Everything shown to us, both visually and gameplay wise is just "Boring" "Lackluster"

We get hit the hardest by the Cross Role system. We got a level gap. 4.0 is supposed to be about Tank and Healer balance.

I hope for 5.0 Healers seriously get time being messed with by Yoshi. I do not want to see another segment on BLM.
In the SB video you can visually see what other classes do and you feel inspiried to play those classes, and yet for WHM at the time of the video we were shown.
-Aeros *Yay..*
-Stone *Please stop*
-Buffs that are visually uninspiring and we had no idea what they did at the time.
-Pull *why is a crossrole shown in our segment*
We had to wait a month for any info from the Embargo and some of us couldn't even respec Retainers to another Job because we got info way to late. Compare our segment in the video with other healers.
If I see another Stone.. It better be us throwing the planet.. I am pretty sure we mastered throwing rocks at this point.

This seems more like insecurity than a correlation. SAM is a job that has (practically) 0 raid party buffs. The idea behind SAM's design is that the raid party buffs and the potencies on SAM counterbalance each other. My predictions for SAM is that it will probably be balanced correctly, but anyone who looks more at their own performance than the group's performance will not desire a SAM in their group. On the other hand, I predict that most SAM players will not have the skill required for the justification to become valid, and this will make many players skeptical of SAM players.

All of the above is entirely different from the idea that SE would make one job harder and better than another job. SAM's competition are still good options. I don't believe that I can put WHM in the same boat as DRG/MNK/NIN. In fact, WHM should be more like SAM in this analogy. Except, I don't believe that WHM will be able to justify its design the way that SAM will. What that says to me is that if this is the direction that SE wants to take, WHM's output needs to go up significantly.

Originally Posted by OcieKo

When will you guys stop forcing the notion of Plenary Indulgence as an AOE heal, it's honestly hurting it more than its helping. The people who are calling it a bonus tetra are closer to the point, and confession (still believe this will get a proc rate increase) will refresh as long as a proc happens, as its fairly reasonable to believe that the duration stops refreshing at 3 stacks. Its going to be nice for when your hitting preyd DPS with Cure Is and need to pop a quick heal on the tank.

Also when will you accept that ALMOST ALL of ASTs healing strength is in its GCD abilities, whereas WHM its about 50/50, SCH 60/40 but their ridden with opportunity costs and the harder to calculate fairie (eos and selene great, but Embrace isnt as easy to account for in practice). Before you mention Essential Dignity (which is getting nerfed, honestly not to bithered by what they did, its mid range is safe, just its low and high ends got pinched in a bit) and Collective Unconcious (disables any other action for as long as you want the mitigation boost) WHMs have a lot more options to cover these, and after 4.X even more often usable options that can be buffed to be EVEN MORE usable options, just by CHOOSING to use GCDs to heal just like the job that is allegedy crushing your healing (someone please inform me of how to beat out assize, benediction, and asylum with my current kit, cause i know once my 2nd WHM is done the only thing keeping me from surpassing my AST main from falling behind in raw healing is a worse weapon).

Divine Benison, people have already explained how this can match Stoneskin, it seems the peeve is now the GCD isnt for Stoneskin itself but to build resources for it. IMHO Stoneskin was usually a waste of MP.

High Risk High Reward gameplay, yes it looks powerful in the good luck bubble, but apparently you havent been plagued by constant spire/spear/bole enough (ironically these cards get a lot better at these moments since you get to actually use them, assuming your trying to fill spread before royal road) and quite frankly it should, why would one gamble for the same value they put in, the allure of gambling is based on the potential to get more than once puts in, while having to have the odds of aquiring it against you. Other things you may not have noticed, its not improbable for AST to Redraw away Balance to get Ewer/Spire for Royal Road when Spread is already filled. Side not I seriously recommend practicing fishing for Spread exclusively first, as it allows more CDs to be used as opposed to just thrown away. WHM think about how often you use 2 CDs and got 100% nothing out of it because you had reason to throw the end option out.

I briefly skimmed through but stopped at one point. IMO, SCH is as OCD heavy as WHM (or more). That doesn't mean it has a low skill ceiling though. I raid on SCH btw.