Consolidated White Mage 4.0 Feedback Thread

[Saraphin]

Just couldn't resist that little jab at America, could you?

I play on an NA server and I'm american, it's hardly a jab at America.

it's more to point out that this seemed to start on NA servers, nothing more, nothing less. if you think for an instant that it's insulting a country, there is an issue.

[Noka]

Purifying Waters

This is to Assize what Quick Nock is to Wide Volley. I'd enjoy if the effects of this were taken and distributed into the kit - like, Assize gaining potency per lilly.

Faith

Bit much for both the damage and the buff, but not bad. It'd be cool as a debuff/buff thing.

Hope
Enhanced Raise II

Hope may not be necessary, but we'll see.

Enhanced Raise II... don't think it should be both full HP/no weakness. CD that cleanses Weakness would be excellent and add incredibly rare utility.

Not bad! I'd be more interested in having WHM get Reverse, though. Stormblood is the patch where we have buttons convert, and I'd enjoy a button that'd work like Cleric Stance 2.0, but casting Cure I/II as damaging spells for Lilly procs. That'd be wonderful. Even if it had a Lilly cost to swap.

[javid]

1st: It forces a certain style of play to take advantage of the job's new offerings.

And what style of play is this??? If you play whm in SB almost exactly how you play WHM now, it will at rdm take advantage of the recast reduction system.... I see no forces anywhere? The only skill that is FORCED to interact with the lilies is Divine Benison. HOWEVER our current Stoneskin has the same cost as a Cure II and same GCD timer. So technically in the future every time you ABSOLUTELY need a "stoneskin", you'll have one at WORST for a GCD worth the same amount as old stoneskin. ( this is assuming we don't mandate "stoneskin" more frequently than 60 sec.)

2nd: You're incentivized to choose to not use Tetragrammaton or Assize to avoid wasting your lillies because there's no way to control if you use a Lilly or not.

Quite the opposite. There is no detriment to expunging your lilies on any cd; if you need a lil explicity for Divine Benison, then you'll pretend like you're still in current content and precast a cure II and instantly mash the button for Divine Benison......

3rd: The capstone being focused on a RNG resource (Confessions) generated solely from Cure I/II is awful, ngl.

Yes, Lillies are RNG and useless rn. But it's important to show SE that if they decide to buff Lillies, they need to systematically reduce the RNG to match.

you'll have to elaborate on what it means to be "awful". You know Confessions are liked to Freecure/Overcure traits you have... do you think those are awful too?? At least confessions are ogcd procs thru the use of PI!

4th: It is crippling, when WHM's viability is seen as mediocre. It forces a decision: make a wasteful choice or refuse to use oGCDs until they have full Lillies. Think "Thrifty vs Balance-Only AST" debate.

another fallacy. Whm's viability stems from is core healing gcds and ogcds: regen, cures, medicas, and its 8* CDs(wont be 8 anymore without reaching into cross-class)

Not saying this is the end of days, but I am saying that compared to the utility and resources given to SCH and AST, WHM's Lillies are meh.

I've keep saying we need to compare gauge system to gauge system (yes WHM may still falter), but it's not a fair comparison to pit WHM's gauge to AST card system for example.....they're not meant to have the same/similar function.

It's like Spear. Potentially useful, but ultimately useless.

Pedantic point: Spear isn't at all ultimately useless, its only b/c we prefer Balance over everything, which renders other skills, like spear, "useless". But imagine if you absolutely couldn't get a balance but u had a spear and placed it on a mnk right before Internal release, howling fist, and Elixir field. That mnk would see 25% effective dps increase for those 3 abilities.




P.S. for the trolls: if this is making less and less sense to you maybe it's because this is going more and more over your head

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

The WHM reaction to the Media Tour build was a disaster to the Reputation for WHM.

Fixed that for you just a bit. Honestly, by this point I'm half convinced many of these WHM 'mains' are trying to go out of their way to make the class as unattractive as possible for one reason or another. But that's just speculation on my part regardless~

I'm only saying this because for the last few months, I've been seeing people pointing at threads on this forum for why they're quitting a class they liked.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Fixed that for you just a bit. Honestly, by this point I'm half convinced many of these WHM 'mains' are trying to go out of their way to make the class as unattractive as possible for one reason or another. But that's just speculation on my part regardless~

To be fair, the less amount of people who play White Mage, the more likely the devs are to fix it. Astro was a laughing stock at Heavensward's release and now it's bordering on Goddess status. Nevertheless, people being honest about White Mage's severe drawbacks isn't a bad thing.

[Cynfael]

Fixed that for you just a bit. Honestly, by this point I'm half convinced many of these WHM 'mains' are trying to go out of their way to make the class as unattractive as possible for one reason or another. But that's just speculation on my part regardless~

I'm only saying this because for the last few months, I've been seeing people pointing at threads on this forum for why they're quitting a class they liked.

Anyone who justifies quitting a Job because of forum discussion was just looking for something to cite an excuse.

Players otherwise happy with their Jobs don't read the official forums and go, "Whelp, I was having fun until these internet strangers told me I shouldn't be having any."

[javid]

To be fair, the less amount of people who play White Mage, the more likely the devs are to fix it. Astro was a laughing stock at Heavensward's release and now it's bordering on Goddess status. Nevertheless, people being honest about White Mage's severe drawbacks isn't a bad thing.

If fflogs is any indication of what ppl play: here is a stat of all the parses upload for Creator Savage, standard comp, pre echo


https://www.fflogs.com/statistics/13...c=hps&region=1

there are almost twice the number of uploads on SCH and AST than there are WHM's (AST has the most uploaded which maybe an indication that AST is already the preferred co-healer)




Edit
here is an interesting stat: Over all of Creator Savage, pre echo, standard comp, solo healing predominantly the whole fight, WHM just BARELY edges out the other 2 healers for MAX HPS..... this might be a sign that SE DOES design the fights where no healer gets a HEALING advantage over the other that is EASILY noticeable .....hmmm


https://www.fflogs.com/statistics/13...=1&dataset=100

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

Anyone who justifies quitting a Job because of forum discussion was just looking for something to cite an excuse.

Players otherwise happy with their Jobs don't read the official forums and go, "Whelp, I was having fun until these internet strangers told me I shouldn't be having any."

That depends really. Some people don't really like the implication that they may or may not be associated with people they consider to be "tilting at whirlwinds" so to speak. It's not exactly uncommon for people to avoid affiliation with excessively negative communities whether it's real or imagined. Kinda like certain anime and TV fanbases that will remain nameless~

In that aspect, it's less the fact they don't like the job, but find the community about it to be embarrassing and want no part of it.

[OcieKo]

Pedantic point: Spear isn't at all ultimately useless, its only b/c we prefer Balance over everything, which renders other skills, like spear, "useless". But imagine if you absolutely couldn't get a balance but u had a spear and placed it on a mnk right before Internal release, howling fist, and Elixir field. That mnk would see 25% effective dps increase for those 3 abilities.


P.S. for the trolls: if this is making less and less sense to you maybe it's because this is going more and more over your head

So enjoy readin your posts javid.

But yes, while we ASTs call the Spear card the trash card, its not because we think its bad, its not and we know it, but that its simply too hard to make frequent use of. If were phishing for Balance or Ewer/Spire and Spear or Bole come up after redraw, well usually use it. While both Spear and Bole can be very powerful in the right situation, the opportunity cost of using it is vastly diminished by the whenever useful Balance options. If we use Balance (or even Arrow for that matter, tho some people oddly hate getting Arrow) its pretty much useful unless the boss is invuln/out of arena or the part/raid cant actively dps at the time when its used, so its priority weight is drastically higher.

On that not Ewer and Spire can be really nice after rezzing a physical DPS or a non-BLM caster (sorry not sorry BLM, I cant imagine a world where giving you single target Ewer is useful to either of us). But their value as Royal Road AOE modifier vastly outweighs such uses.

I think a lot of tanks don't realize that the amount of OCD instant cast 0 mp cost heals on WHM and SCH put AST in the dirt. WHM will grow in this department in 4.0 with cooldown reduction, plenary indulgence, and 3 min cooldown time on benediction.

I've seen Tanks go do some huge pull (some not popping proper cooldowns) and quickly die before an AST can do anything about it. Then, they think its the AST's fault because they're used to a WHM or SCH being able to baby sit them with the OCD heals. The other result in this scenario is AST is having to GCD more heals than a WHM or SCH and every GCD of heal is 1 less GCD of damage.

I have to agree that the cast frequency of Cure 1 and Cure 2 for skilled players is extremely low. That means the utilization of any new systems tied specifically to those 2 spells will also be as low, unless it is expanded to spells that we use with greater frequency.

Mahkii, thank you for putting it in such an understandable way, been trying to get that point across for a week now. Your wording was just very clear /applaud.
Anyways, I don't thinks it's just tanks that aren't realizing this, but a decent chunk of WHMs here, this very simple point is probably going to skyrocket the value of Healer DMG/CS changes to WHM with how much not having to dance will permit weaving in OGCD healing, something that while convenient for SCHs and moreso ASTs, both lack the tools to benefit from it as healers. While WHMs are complaining about their heals being outclassed by the others, thats simply when you compare the GCD spells as you go from WHM to SCH to AST the amount of MP reqd GCDs needed to provide said healing goes up along with the amount of non-healing support provided. Tho even with ASTs cheaper Bene 1/2, and Helios costs, we cast all 3 more. (Aspected Helios costs the same as Succor, and Regen is cheaper than Aspected Benefic). SCH still loses the MP efficiency game tho, they cast more GCDs than WHM with less GCD tools thus making the options they have cost more since they replace multiple GCDs out of WHM/AST, and while they have more OGCD and MP free heals than AST 2 of them share an opportunity cost, and another assumes the right faerie is out or that the other faerie didnt use the same skill slot recently (Eos and Selene share CDs, keep that in mind, swiftcast switch wont get you both from the same petbar slot. ALSO this can be used as an arguement against counting SCH/SMN spet skills uniquely for button count, given that its always 4 skills usable, 1 GCD like 3 OGCDs, 4 buttons not 8-12).

For reference on MP costs of Healer GCDs:
WHM / SCH / AST
Cure I 442 / Physick 442 / Benefic 353
Cure II 884 / A2 / Benefic II 795
Cure III 1679 / X / X
Medica I 1237 / S2 / Helios 1060
Medica II 1592 / Succor 1326 / Aspected Helios 1326
Regen 618 / Adloquium 1060 / Aspected Benefic 787
Notes: A2 SCH Cure 2 slot is also filled by Adloq which costs almost 200MP more, and S2 the base AOE heal slot is also filled with Succor which 100-300 more mana than its competitors. And both do less actual healing than their competitors by at least halved which can only be regained on e every 30s

WHMs take a moment and consider which of your OGCD heals youd be willing to sacrifice for party DPS support? It'd be fair and balanced to sacrifice those for such tools, and fair and balanced seem to be what your claiming you want.

[Fawkes]

Honestly, by this point I'm half convinced many of these WHM 'mains' are trying to go out of their way to make the class as unattractive as possible for one reason or another.

Nah, SE already did that for us.