Thread: Consolidated White Mage 4.0 Feedback Thread

Originally Posted by dvoraen

My feedback is largely in the form of a proposal. Everyone's pretty much made the essential points. This Google doc I wrote pretty much summarizes my standpoint on it, and is my bid for #WHM4.4Buff.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...it?usp=sharing

While I like the direction of this person's suggestions, they're likely a bit too over powered. xD

v.v Stoneskin will be missed. If people think a tacked on level 66 skill is going to replace the loss, that's just pure ignorance. CT/ST/WoD and VA/WC/DS... all of those have times where Stoneskin helps people to live. Even good players can zone out for a second and die in those places.

Also:
AST gets Bole at level 30.
SCH gets Adlo at level 30.
WHM no longer gets stone skin at level 34.

One of these things is not like the other. So from level 34 on wards in instances, WHMs will have no mitigation compared to the other two.

How would a WHM be able to handle T1-13 synched? There's a lot of places where even a 10% shield is the difference between life or death. How would a WHM handle T10? T12?? T13??? What do they bring to the table at 50 that would allow them to clear that content. And people still like to clear that content for the challenge. Even current content, WHM would need more help from their off healer just to clear it synched because of lack of Stoneskin!

And for the record, for the cross class skills, we lost:
Stone I's Heavy.
Ensuna.
Protect.
Cleric Stance.
Shroud of Saints.
Divine Seal.

So that's access to 6 skills we have had since 2.0... and in 4.0 we have to pick and choose from them on top of having to take Swift Cast.

Any shift towards a Crit Build on White Mage should be outright discouraged unless SE wants to make us the new self healing tank class. >.> I don't know about you, but I've played a Crit Build White Mage (because it was my SCH alt and I used her gear), and unless your tanks are constantly spamming aggro rotations, you will nab aggro. Which further reduces group DPS and makes you even LESS desirable.

*sigh* I'm working on a post with my own suggestions, since I haven't given mine yet here.

Originally Posted by Atlantasia

v.v Stoneskin will be missed. If people think a tacked on level 66 skill is going to replace the loss, that's just pure ignorance. CT/ST/WoD and VA/WC/DS... all of those have times where Stoneskin helps people to live. Even good players can zone out for a second and die in those places.

I'm hearing a lot about how much of a loss Stoneskin will be and I am honestly really confused. The only place I have found Stoneskin to be of any use is on the last form of Diabolos Hollow before he does his last big AoE on somebody who has more than one stack of weakness. In this case I just wait to raise them until afterwards. Looking at FFLogs it doesn't seem as though a whole lot of WHMs are actually casting this during fights either, only as a pre-buff.

Stoneskin was really only useful when you were in Cleric, IMO. The long cast time and high mana cost, combined with the fact that it was usually gone in one or two hits, hardly makes it seem like that great of a loss. I'm not going to miss it.

Also, who on this green earth is doing Coil runs synced beyond a sheer novelty?

Originally Posted by Atlantasia

v.v Stoneskin will be missed. If people think a tacked on level 66 skill is going to replace the loss, that's just pure ignorance. CT/ST/WoD and VA/WC/DS... all of those have times where Stoneskin helps people to live. Even good players can zone out for a second and die in those places.

Also:
AST gets Bole at level 30.
SCH gets Adlo at level 30.
WHM no longer gets stone skin at level 34.

One of these things is not like the other. So from level 34 on wards in instances, WHMs will have no mitigation compared to the other two.

How would a WHM be able to handle T1-13 synched? There's a lot of places where even a 10% shield is the difference between life or death. How would a WHM handle T10? T12?? T13??? What do they bring to the table at 50 that would allow them to clear that content. And people still like to clear that content for the challenge. Even current content, WHM would need more help from their off healer just to clear it synched because of lack of Stoneskin!

And for the record, for the cross class skills, we lost:
Stone I's Heavy.
Ensuna.
Protect.
Cleric Stance.
Shroud of Saints.
Divine Seal.

So that's access to 6 skills we have had since 2.0... and in 4.0 we have to pick and choose from them on top of having to take Swift Cast.

Any shift towards a Crit Build on White Mage should be outright discouraged unless SE wants to make us the new self healing tank class. >.> I don't know about you, but I've played a Crit Build White Mage (because it was my SCH alt and I used her gear), and unless your tanks are constantly spamming aggro rotations, you will nab aggro. Which further reduces group DPS and makes you even LESS desirable.

Stoneskin Part 1: a lot of those deaths are due to healers not topping off health on revived people right away and just letting regens handle it.
Stoneskin Part 2: the only way for that logic of syncing in T1-13 is to do it w/o the echo and to not have your gear synced, but to wear appropriate ilvl gear for the area, synced gear is far stronger than appropriate gear even on min ilvl, most chars have an extra few thousand hp synced into those with lvl 60 i250+ avg or so.

Bole: all I have for that is combining RNG and opportunity cost.
Adloquium: this takes the place of both Cure II and Regen in your kit, which you get at 30 and 35. Pick which one you want pushed back or lost to gain an equivlent feature. Also it costs About 20% more MP than Cure I and about 70% more MP than Regen.

Stone I: Everyone got hit by this, healers, tanks, and DPS, thus its a non-issue. I'm not even sure ASTs equivilent of Stella is even in the game anymore.

Esuna: WHM didn't lose this HEALERS lost this, they simply opted to keep the name from the WHM one. Couldve called it Leeches or Exalted Detriment, but Esuna is FF iconic so of course they went with that.

Protect: Didn't really do anything to the healer dynamic, your in no worse shape than anyone else, technically this could be considered balancing that seems to be a greivance WHMs have. To be honest, if protect was reworked for PVE like the PVP version is now, youd have a complaint. Balance and equality donesn't mean its nice to be on the higher end, its nice everywhere. Congratulations new Mr. Bergeron!

Cleric Stance: TBH if they gave this back to WHMs in its current form I don't think ASTs would care, I think SCHs were the only ones hit for DMG output significantly. And even with that opinion, its current value is significantly less, its very easy to never use now, so why is it a problem.

Shroud of Saints: Lucid Dream hit everyone, Luminiferous Aether is gone and Aetherflow was halved, you now have both of the strongest MP management related tools in the game with Thin Air and Assize, before you say Assize's main purpose isn't MP, that very facet is what makes it strong, it can be used for anything and you still get it. Ewer/Energy Drain the AST/SCH loses something else to get it.

Divine Seal: Ignoring for now that you eventually mention hating a reason to overheal... AST lost this on Synastry. SCH seems to have avoided it, but Dissipation is by and far the most painful to use of the 3 flat healing boosts.

Crit build does this on EVERYONE, just the MP cost of overhealing is lower. SCH benefits the most simply because of having the lowest actual healing #s and the highest crit modifier bonus with Adloquium (the Noct #s being mentioned will likely never make it to live, albiet Noct requires more frequent use of MP to heal than SCH). Crit seems super bad on regens because regens are NATURALLY MP INEFFICIENT OVERHEALING MONSTROSITIES. Don't get me wrong I love regens, I specialize on the Diurnal side of things, but I also know most of my wasted MP is on Aspected Benefic, Aspected Helios, and when I hit the target second with Benefic I and II. Can HoTs be used efficiently? most definitely yes, will they though? Likely not, myself included heavily use HoTs to be lazy and spend more time and attention on things that aren't healing. Most common spot for Regen/D Aspected Benefic would be the main tank, as they will generally get a vastly higher percentage of effective healing from any given HoT. Only healer that can't survive without their specialty tool heals is SCH simply because they have no AOE heal otherwise.

I am curious CrazyCapn What if our teather instead gave a stronger bonus to Mage Casters instead of Physical. So many Physical buffs already.
What if the spell had different uses for how many Lillies or Confessions we had. 1. A healing potency buff, 2. A small Mitigation buff for the party. 3. A small DPS buff for a target "Maybe stronger for a caster"

Would it still answer Astro or Sch probably not. It would also need to be a long Cooldown.

We need UTILITY.

I would like for our Lilies to interact with our job spells in some unique way instead of giving us CDR.
Maybe give a small bonus to Regen *small potency*, Aslyum *Mitigation while inside of it*, Assize *15% Mp restored*, Holy *an extra Second for stun duration*, PoM *5% more SS*
Make our job abilities feel more dynamic.

I wouldn't know if my ideas are overtuned or undertuned.

I just want Lillies to interact with our job in a more meaningful way come on CDR really.. Do we need to make DPS stronger No. Healers buffing DPS shouldn't even exist.

Replace the obvious major level gaps, and can we please stop getting Stones. Why don't you use Water or Holy elements more often.