Consolidated White Mage 4.0 Feedback Thread

[Risvertasashi]

The heals being weaker than astrologian may have nothing to do with white Mage and everything to do with Astro being over tuned. Which means nerf for Astro not a buff to whm.

As they are both healers competing for relevance, it still matters. That is another comment: If power levels of healers were remaining about the same, it would be much less an issue; while not an improvement, WHM wouldn't be as threatened... but the power of AST and SCH are both considerably increasing, and so here we are.

[OzumaKuma]

Definitely quitting the game if it isn't fixed because its not just a minor slip, its pure and utter negligence on the dev's part. How it got past planning and into a real concept is frightening.

Given the WHM populations reaction on threads like this, it says how out of touch they are for all their talk of census information. Good Luck with your dps queues in Stormblood when none of the White Mages feel like taking this crap

sorry, angry

[Feidam]

Which five skills? Cause shroud of saints was weaker than what you got back. I'm sorry this is not a loss for the whm. Divine seal yeah it was and everyone has a weaker version now. Protect yeah ya lost it, and I had hoped you get a utility in it's place but whm did not. Esuna everyone lost but I don't think is huge has esuna isn't needed at every fight or instance. Some nice flexibility there. Cleric stance yeah you lost it, but with the mid change it really isn't a loss. Really only lost two skills in the grand scheme of things. Protect and divine seal. Again I wish they had given something utility wise in place of that but they went for high dps and as your utility. This could be rectified maybe with some good constructive feedback since we know they are at least listening.

[Mahkii]

Issue #4: Mathematically, AST's potential outheals both other healers... by far
Now, I realize that doing a comparison over 5m, 10m or more would better serve the purpose of my point here--or may even prove me wrong---I just did not have the patience to go on after one minute. So here we are.

• Note: These assessments do not account for MP cost, critical hits or shields. HoTs are used here as opposed to shield effects, as their potencies are more directly comparable. (Ex: is AST's shield could either be calculated as 300% of the HP restored by the heal or as 300% of the heal's potency, which may differ.)
• Note:The cast times, GCDs and oGCDs are accounted for at their base level for each spell (2s, 3s cast, 2.5s GCD, etc) while cast time between instantly cast spells is accounted for at 0.5s intervals across the board.
• Note: Regarding Plenary: Yes, I know how percentages work. My math is based on an exact 20% chance to proc as that is what's written in the tooltip. It could proc more, it could proc less. Thats the difficulty with RNG.

WHM -- without cooldowns that increase healing potency, spell speed or HoT duration

0 Casting started
3 Medica II - ticks until 33
3.5 Regen - ticks until 24.5
4 Asylum - ticks until 28 - CD until 94
4.5 Assize - CD until 64.5
5 Tetragrammaton - CD until 65
5.5 Start Casting
7.5 Cure II - (20% Confession proc)
10 Start Casting
12 Cure II - (40% Confession proc)
14.5 Start Casting
16.5 Cure II - (60% Confession proc)
19 Starting Casting
21 Cure II - (80% Confession proc)
23 Start Casting
24 Cure II - (100% Confession proc) - Confession procced until 54
24.5 **Plenary Indulgence - CD until 39.5 - Confessions dissipated
25 Regen - ticks until 46
26.5 Start Casting
28.5 Cure II - (20% Confession proc)
31 Start Casting
34 Medica II - ticks until 64
36.5 Start Casting
38.5 Cure II - (40% Confession proc)
41 Start Casting
43 Cure II - (60% Confession proc)
45.5 Start Casting
47.5 Cure II - (80% Confession proc)
48 Regen - ticks until 69
50 Start Casting
52 Cure II - (100% Confession proc) Confession procced until 82
52.5 **Plenary Indulgence - CD until 77.5 - Confessions dissipated
54.5 Cure II - (20% Confession proc)
57 Start Casting
59 Cure II - (40% Confession proc)
60 Casting interrupted

Full potency heals:
Cure II (700 potency) x (12 casts) = 8400
Medica II (700 potency) x (1 cast) = 700
Regen (1050 potency) x (2 casts) = 2100
Asylum (800 potency) x (1 cast) = 800
Assize (300 potency) x (1 cast) = 300
Tetra (700 potency) x (1 cast) = 700
Plenary used when only last proc is used (500 potency) x (1 cast) = 500
Plenary used at each proc (400 potency) x (2 casts) = 800

Partial potency heals (did not tick fully before 60s):
Medica II = 600 potency

• (60s time limit - 34s tick start) = 26s of regen ticks
• Reduce 26s to the highest multiple of 3 (as Regens tick every 3s) > 24s of regen ticks
• (24s of regen ticks) / (3s between each tick) = 8 regen ticks
• (8 regens ticks) x (50 potency) = 400 potency worth of regen
• (400 potency worth of regen) + (200 potency initial heal) = 600 potency

Regen = 600 potency

• (60s time limit - 48s tick start) = 12s of regen ticks
• 12 is already a miltiple of 3
• (12s of regen ticks) / (3s between each tick) = 4 regen ticks
• (4 regens ticks) x (150 potency) = 600 potency worth of regen

(Sum if Confession never procs)
8400 + 700 + 2100 + 800 + 300 + 700 + 0 + 600 + 600 = 14200
(Sum using Plenary twice at 1 stack of Confession each)
8400 + 700 + 2100 + 800 + 300 + 700 + 800 + 600 + 600 = 15000

WHM --- using cooldowns that increase healing potency, spell speed or HoT duration

0 Swiftcast - CD until 60
0.5 Largesse - CD until 90.5
1 Medica II - ticks until 31
1.5 Regen - ticks until 22.5
2 Presence of Mind - CD until 152
2.5 Start Casting
4.1 Cure II - (20% Confession proc)
4.6 Asylum - CD until 94.6
5.1 Assize - CD until 65.1
5.6 Tetragrammaton - CD until 65.6
6.1 Start Casting
7.7 Cure II - (40% Confession proc)
9.7 Start Casting
11.3 Cure II - (60% Confession proc)
13.3 Starting Casting
14.9 Cure II - (80% Confession proc)
17.9 Start Casting
19.5 Cure II - (100% Confession proc) - Confession procced until 49.5
20 **Plenary Indulgence - CD until 35 - Confessions dissipated
20 Presence of Mind buff ends
20.5 Largesse buff ends
20.5 Start Casting
22.5 Cure II - (20% Confession proc)
23 Regen - ticks until 44
25 Start Casting
27 Cure II - (40% Confession proc)
29.5 Start Casting
32 Medica II - ticks until 62
34.5 Start Casting
36.5 Cure II - (60% Confession proc)
39 Start Casting
41 Cure II - (80% Confession proc)
44 Regen - ticks until 65
44.5 Start Casting
46.5 Cure II - (100% Confession proc) Confession procced until 76.5
47 **Plenary Indulgence - CD until 62 - Confessions dissipated
49 Start Casting
51 Cure II
53.5 Start Casting
55.5 Cure II
58 Start Casting
60 Cure II

Full Potency heals:
Largesse Medica II (700 potency) x (1.2 for Largesse potency increase) x (1 cast) = 840
Largesse Regen (1050 potency) x (1.2 for Largesse potency increase) x (1 cast) = 1260
Largesse Cure II (700 potency) x (1.2 for Largesse potency increase) x (5 casts) = 4200
Largesse Asylum (800 potency) x (1.2 for Largesse potency increase) x (1 cast) = 960
Largesse Assize (300 potency) x (1.2 for Largesse potency increase) x (1 cast) = 360
Largesse Tetragrammaton (700 potency) x (1.2 for Largesse potency increase) x (1 cast) = 840
Largesse Plenary (400 potency) x (1.2 for Largesse potency increase) x (1 cast) = 480
Cure II (700 potency) x (8 casts) = 5600
Regen (1050 potency) x (1 cast) = 1050
Plenary (400 potency) x (1 cast) = 400

Partial potency heals (did not tick fully before 60s):
Medica II = 650 potency

• (60s time limit - 32s tick start) = 28s of regen ticks
• Reduce 28s to the highest multiple of 3 (as Regens tick every 3s) > 27s of regen ticks
• (27s of regen ticks) / (3s between each tick) = 9 regen ticks
• (9 regens ticks) x (50 potency) = 450 potency worth of regen
• (450 potency worth of regen) + (200 potency initial heal) = 650 potency

Regen = 750 potency

• (60s time limit - 44s tick start) = 16s of regen ticks
• Reduce 16s to the highest multiple of 3 (as Regens tick every 3s) > 15s of regen ticks
• (15s of regen ticks) / (3s between each tick) = 5 regen ticks
• (5 regens ticks) x (150 potency) = 750 potency worth of regen

(Sum if Confession never procs)
840 + 1260 + 4200 + 960 + 360 + 840 + 0 + 5600 + 1050 + 0 + 450 + 750 = 16310
(Sum using Plenary twice at 1 stack of Confession each)
840 + 1260 + 4200 + 960 + 360 + 840 + 480 + 5600 + 1050 + 400 + 450 + 750 = 17190

SCH -- without cooldowns that increase healing potency, spell speed or HoT duration and beginning with a full stack of Aetherflow

SCH's heals

0 Lustrate
1 Lustrate
2 Lustrate - Aetherflow Stacks Gone
2.5 Aetherflow - CD until 62.5 - Aetherflow stacks replenished
3 Lustrate
4 Lustrate
5 Lustrate
5.5 Emergency Tactics - CD until 35.5
6 Casting started
8 Adloquium
8.5 **Excogitation - CD until 68.5
10.5 Casting started
12.5 Physick
15 Casting started
17 Physick
19.5 Casting started
21.5 Physick
24 Casting started
26 Physick
28.5 Casting started
30.5 Physick
33 Casting started
35 Physick
35.5 Emergency Tactics - CD until 65.5
37.5 Casting started
39.5 Adloquium
43 Casting started
45 Physick
47.5 Casting started
49.5 Physick
53 Casting started
55 Physick
57.5 Casting started
59.5 Physick
60 Casting interrupted

Lustrate (600 potency) x (6 casts) = 3600
Physick (400 potency) x (10 casts) = 4000
ET Adloquium (300 potency) x (2 cast) x (2 hits per cast) = 1200
Excogitation (650 potency) x (1 cast) = 650 (0 potency if Excogitation doesn't take effect.)

(Sum if Excogitation does not take effect)
3600 + 4000 + 1200 + 0 = 8800
(Sum if Excogitation takes effect)
3600 + 4000 + 1200 + 650 = 9450

SELENE's heals

0 Casting started
2 Embrace
5 Casting started
7 Embrace
10 Casting started
12 Embrace
15 Casting started
17 Embrace
20 Casting started
22 Embrace
25 Casting started
27 Embrace
30 Casting started
32 Embrace
35 Casting started
37 Embrace
40 Casting started
42 Embrace
45 Casting started
47 Embrace
50 Casting started
52 Embrace
55 Casting started
57 Embrace
60 Casting interrupted

Embrace (300 potency) x (12 casts) = 3600

(Sum if Excogitation does not take effect, with Selene)
(SCH) 8800 + (SELENE) 3600 = 12400
(Sum if Excogitation take effect, with Selene)
(SCH) 9450 + (SELENE) 3600 = 13050

EOS' heals

0 Casting started
2 Whispering Dawn - Regen until 23 - CD until 62
2.5 Casting started
5.5 Embrace
7.5 Casting started
10.5 Embrace
12.5 Casting started
15.5 Embrace
17.5 Casting started
20.5 Embrace
22.5 Casting started
25.5 Embrace
27.5 Casting started
30.5 Embrace
32.5 Casting started
35.5 Embrace
37.5 Casting started
40.5 Embrace
42.5 Casting started
45.5 Embrace
47.5 Casting started
50.5 Embrace
52.5 Casting started
55.5 Embrace
57.5 Casting started
60 Casting interrupted

Embrace (300 potency) x (11 casts) = 3300
Whispering Dawn (700 potency) x (1 cast) = 700
3300 + 700 = 4000

(Sum if Excogitation does not take effect, with Eos)
8800 + 4000 = 12800
(Sum if Excogitation takes effect, with Eos)
9450 + 4000 = 13450

SCH+EOS+SELENE --- using cooldowns that increase healing potency, spell speed or HoT duration

0 Largesse - CD until 90
0 Fey Illumination - CD until 120
0.5 Start Casting (Eos)
0.5 Lustrate
1.5 Lustrate
2.5 Lustrate - Aetherflow stacks gone
2.5 Whispering Dawn - ticks until 23.5 - CD until 62.5
3 Dissipation - CD until 180 - Aetherflow stacks replenished - Eos leaves the party
3.5 Excogitation - CD until 63.5
4 Lustrate
5 Lustrate
6 Lustrate - Aetherflow stacks gone
6.5 Aetherflow - CD until 66.5 - Aetherflow stacks replenished
7 Lustrate
8 Lustrate
9 Lustrate - Aetherflow stacks gone
9.5 Emergency Tactics - CD until 39.5
10 Start Casting
12 Adloquium
14.5 Start Casting
16.5 Physick
19 Start Casting
20 Largesse buff ends
20 Fey Illumination buff ends
21 Physick **Receives Largesse/Fey Illumination as it began casting before buffs ended**
23.5 Start Casting
25.5 Physick
28 Start Casting
31 Physick
31.5 Swiftcast - CD until 91.5
33 Dissipation buff ends
33.5 Summon - Selene joins the party
34.5 Fey Wind - CD until 94.5
34.5 Rouse - CD until 94.5
35 Start Casting (Selene)
36 Start Casting (SCH)
36.94 Embrace
37.94 Physick
39.5 Emergency Tactics - CD until 69.5
39.85 Start Casting (Selene)
40.365 Start Casting (SCH)
41.79 Embrace
42.305 Adloquium
44.7 Start Casting (Selene)
44.73 Start Casting (SCH)
46.64 Embrace
46.67 Physick
49.095 Start Casting (SCH)
49.55 Start Casting (Selene)
51.035 Physick
51.49 Embrace
53.46 Start Casting (SCH)
54.4 Start Casting (Selene)
54.5 Rouse buff ends
55.4 Physick
56.34 Embrace **Receives Rouse buff as it started Casting before buff ended**
57.825 Start Casting (SCH)
59.25 Start Casting (Selene)
59.765 Physick
60 Casting interrupted

L/FI Lustrate (600 potency) x (1.4 for L/FI buffs) x (3 casts) = 2520
FI Whispering Dawn (700 potency) x (1.2 for FI buff) x (1 cast) = 840
L/FI/D Lustrate (600 potency) x (1.6 for L/FI/D buffs) x (6 casts) = 5760
L/FI/D Excog (650 potency) x (1.6 for L/FI/D buffs) x (1 cast) = 1040
L/FI/D/ET Adlo (300 potency) x (1.6 for L/FI/D buffs) x (1 cast) x (2 hits per cast) = 960
L/FI/D Physick (400 potency) x (1.6 for L/FI/D buffs) x (2 casts) = 1280
Dissipation Physick (400 potency) x (1.2 for Dissipation buff) x (2 casts) = 960
Physick (400 potency) x (5 casts) = 2000
ET Adloquium (300 potency) x (1 cast) x (2 hits per cast) = 600
Rouse Embrace - (300 potency) x (1.4 for Rouse potency buff) x (5 casts) = 2100

2520 + 840 + 5760 + 1040 + 960 + 1280 + 960 + 2000 + 600 + 2100 = 17160

AST (DIURNAL SECT) -- without cooldowns that increase healing potency, spell speed or HoT duration

0 Casting started
3 Aspected Helios - ticks until 33
3.5 Aspected Benefic - ticks until 21.5
4 Essential Dignity - CD until 44
4.5 Earthly Star started - ready at 14.5 - CD until 64.5
5 Draw - Any card is drawn
5.5 Minor Arcana - CD until 10.5 - Lady of Crowns Draw. - Draw CD until 35.5
6 Lady of Crowns
6.5 Casting started
8.5 Benefic II
11.5 Casting started
13.5 Benefic II
14.5 Giant Dominance
16 Casting started
18 Benefic II
20.5 Casting started
23.5 Benefic II
24 Aspected Benefic - ticks until 42
26 Casting started
27.5 Benefic II
30 Casting started
32 Benefic II
34.5 Casting started
36.5 Aspected Helios - ticks until 66.5
37 Draw - a card is drawn
37.5 Minor Arcana - CD until 41.5 - Lady of Crowns drawn - Draw CD until 67.5
38 Lady of Crowns
39 Casting started
41 Benefic II
42.5 Aspected Benefic - ticks until 60.5
43.5 Casting started
45.5 Benefic II
46 Essential Dignity - CD until 86
48 Casting started
51 Benefic II
53.5 Casting started
55.5 Benefic II
58 Casting started
60 Benefic II
60 Casting interrupted

Full potency heals:
Benefic II (650 potency) x (1.15 for Sect potency bonus) x (11 casts) = 8222.5
Lady of Crowns (500 potency) x (1.15 for Sect potency bonus) x (2 casts) = 1150
Aspected Helios (600 potency) x (1.15 for Sect potency bonus) x (1 cast) = 690
Aspected Benefic (1040 potency) x (1.15 for Sect potency bonus) x (2 casts) = 2392
Earthly Star (900 potency) x (1.15 for Sect potency bonus) x (1 cast) = 1035
Essential Dignity

• low potency (400 potency) x (1.15 for Sect potency bonus) x (2 casts) = 920 OR
• high potency (1000 potency) x (1.15 for Sect potency bonus) x 2 casts) = 2300

Partial potency heals (did not tick fully before 60s)
Aspected Helios = 552 potency

• (60s time limit - 36.5s tick start) = 23.5s of regen ticks
• Reduce 23.5s to the highest multiple of 3 (as Regens tick every 3s) > 21s of regen ticks
• (21s of regen ticks) / (3s between each tick) = 7 regen ticks
• (7 regens ticks) x [(40 potency) x (1.15 for Sect potency bonus)] = 322 potency worth of regen
• (322 potency worth of regen) + [(200 potency initial heal) x (1.15 for Sect potency bonus)] = 552 potency

Aspected Benefic = 1035 potency

• (60s time limit - 42.5s tick start) = 17.5s of regen ticks
• Reduce 17.5s to the highest multiple of 3 (as Regens tick every 3s) > 15s of regen ticks
• (15s of regen ticks) / (3s between each tick) = 5 regen ticks
• (5 regens ticks) x [(140 potency) x (1.15 for Sect potency bonus)] = 805 potency worth of regen
• (805 potency worth of regen) + [(200 potency initial heal) x (1.15 for Sect potency bonus)] = 1035 potency

(Sum using Essential Dignity lower values and Lady of Crowns never drawn )
8222.5 + 0 + 690 + 2392 + 1035 + 920 + 552 + 1035 = 14846.5
(Sum using Essential Dignity higher values and Lady of Crowns Drawn twice)
8222.5 + 1150 + 690 + 2392 + 1035 + 2300 + 552 + 1035 = 17376.5

AST (DIURNAL SECT) --- using cooldowns that increase healing potency, spell speed or HoT duration

0 Swiftcast - CD until 60
0.5 Largesse - CD until 90.5
1 Aspected Helios - ticks until 31
1.5 Aspected Benefic - ticks until 19.5
2 Celestial Opposition - CD until 122 - AH ticks until 40, AB ticks until 29
2.5 Time Dilation - CD until 92.5 - AH ticks until 54.5, AB ticks until 43.5
3 Essential Dignity - CD until 43
3.5 Earthly Star started - ready at 13.5 - CD until 63.5
4 Draw - Any card is drawn
4.5 Minor Arcana - CD until 9.5 - Lady of Crowns is Drawn - Draw CD until 34.5
5 Lady of Crowns
5.5 Lightspeed - CD until 155.5
6 Benefic II
8.5 Benefic II
11 Benefic II
13.5 Benefic II
14 Giant Dominance
15.5 Lightspeed buff ends
16 Start Casting
18 Benefic II
20.5 Start Casting
20.5 Largesse buff ends
22.5 Benefic II **Receives Largess buff as Casting began before buff ended
25 Start Casting
27 Benefic II
29.5 Start Casting
31.5 Benefic II
34.5 Draw - Any card is drawn
35 Minor Arcana - CD until 39.5 - Lady of Crowns is Drawn - Draw CD until 64.5
35.5 Lady of Crowns
36 Start Casting
38 Benefic II
40.5 Start Casting
42.5 Benefic II
43.5 Essential Dignity - CD until 73
45 Aspected Benefic - ticks until 61.5
45.5 Start Casting
47.5 Benefic II
50 Start Casting
52 Benefic II
54.5 Start Casting
56.5 Benefic II (Aspected Helios isn't worth the cast 4.5 secs from 60s limit)
59 Start Casting
60 Casting interrupted

Full potency heals:
Largesse Essential Dignity

• higher limit (1000 potency) x (1.15 for sect bonus potency) x (1.2 for Largesse buff) x (1 cast) = 1380 OR
• lower limit (400 potency) x (1.15 for sect bonus potency) x (1.2 for Largesse buff) x (1 cast) = 552

Largesse Earthly Star = (900 potency) x (1.15 for sect bonus potency) x (1.2 for Largesse buff) x (1 cast) = 1242
Largesse Lady of Crowns (500 potency) x (1.15 for sect bonus potency) x (1.2 for Largesse buff) x (1 cast) = 690
Largesse Benefic II (650 potency) x (1.15 for sect bonus potency) x (1.2 for Largesse buff) x (6 casts) = 5382
Benefic II (650 potency) x (1.15 for sect bonus potency) x (7 cast) = 5232.5
Lady of Crowns (500 potency) x (1.15 for sect bonus potency) x (1 cast) = 575
Essential Dignity

• higher limit(1000 potency) x (1.15 for sect bonus potency) x (1 cast) = 1150 OR
• lower limit (400 potency) x (1.15 for sect bonus potency) x (1 cast) = 460

Additional ticked heals:
L/TD/CO Asp Helios: = 1104 potency

• [(40 potency regen) x (1.15 for sect bonus potency) x (1.2 for largesse buff)] x [(45s of regens) / (3s between regens)] = 828
• (828 potency of regens) + [(200 potency initial heal) x (1.15 for sect bonus potency) x (1.2 for largesse buff)] = 1104

L/TD/CO Asp Benefic: = 2401.5 potency

• [(140 potency regen) x (1.15 for sect bonus potency) x (1.2 for largesse buff)] x [(33s of regens) / (3s between regens)] = 2125.5
• 2125.5 potency of regens) + [(200 potency initial heal) x (1.15 for sect bonus potency) x (1.2 for largesse buff)] = 2401.5

Partial potency heals (did not tick fully before 60s):
Aspected Benefic: = 1035 potency

• (60s time limit - 45 tick start) = 15s of regen ticks
• 15 is already a multiple of 3
• (15s of regen ticks) / (3s between each tick) = 5 regens ticks
• (5 regen ticks) x (140 potency) x (1.15 for sect potency bonus) = 805 potency worth of regens
• (805 potency worth of Regens) + [(200 potency initial heal) x (1.15 for Sect potency bonus)] = 1035 potency

(Sum using Essential Dignity lower values and Lady of Crowns never drawn)
552 + 1242 + 0 + 5382 + 5232.5 + 0 + 460 + 1104 + 2401.5 + 1035 = 17409
(Sum using Essential Dignity higher values and Lady of Crowns Drawn twice)
1380 + 1242 + 690 + 5382 + 5232.5 + 575 + 1150 + 1104 + 2401.5 + 1035 = 20192

Theoretically, when healing a single target for 1 minute through spamming Cure II/Physick/Benefic II using all its HoTs and oGCD heals:
WHM is pumping out 14200 to 15000 potency of healing
SCH is pumping out
--8800 to 9450 potency of healing by itself
--12400 to 13050 potency of healing when accompanied by Selene and
--12800 to 13450 potency of healing when accompanied by Eos
AST is pumping out 14846.5 to 17376.5 potency of healing

Theoretically, healing a single target for 1 minute through spamming Cure II/Physick/Benefic II using all its HoTs and oGCD heals AND using healing cooldowns:
WHM is pumping out 16310 to 17190 potency of healing
SCH is pumping out 17160 potency of healing
AST is pumping out 17409 to 20192 potency of healing

Not only does AST capable of outhealing WHM by 2000 potency and SCH by 4000 over 1 minute without using healing buffs, but with healing buffs in place, AST still outheals both by 3000 over 1 minute.

Notice how WHM's healing burst from healing cooldowns competes with neither the SCH--who has the greatest possible burst increasing its potency in a minute by 4000 (#YAYSCH)--nor the AST who is now on a whole new healing planet all its own.

Conclusion:
It's not that WHM mains want to whine, moan and compain, it's that without even having played yet, the toolkit as given has widened the gap for the series' staple healer. Sure, WHM can still heal your a** off like a mother, but the job may be even less required/preferred in level 70 raids than it was at level 60.

I just want to say thank you for taking the time to do this.

[Saraphin]

Which five skills? Cause shroud of saints was weaker than what you got back. I'm sorry this is not a loss for the whm. Divine seal yeah it was and everyone has a weaker version now. Protect yeah ya lost it, and I had hoped you get a utility in it's place but whm did not. Esuna everyone lost but I don't think is huge has esuna isn't needed at every fight or instance. Some nice flexibility there. Cleric stance yeah you lost it, but with the mid change it really isn't a loss.

i believe, overall, the issue is that the basic WHM toolkit was ripped away, yes some of the new ones are better and the MND to DPS instead of INT on spells may very well be good. The biggest thing is the rip away of the toolkit and...seemingly RNG to replace it.

[Feidam]

As they are both healers competing for relevance, it still matters. That is another comment: If power levels of healers were remaining about the same, it would be much less an issue; while not an improvement, WHM wouldn't be as threatened... but the power of AST and SCH are both considerably increasing, and so here we are.

You would work to knock Astro down a peg not make another class op. As for the scholar they lost a good bit too in terms of their dps. So a heal boost I don't think is unreasonable. I like all three healers, but Astro is a bit ridiculous and needs some reining in.

[Feidam]

i believe, overall, the issue is that the basic WHM toolkit was ripped away, yes some of the new ones are better and the MND to DPS instead of INT on spells may very well be good. The biggest thing is the rip away of the toolkit and...seemingly RNG to replace it.

The rng could work with enough ways to generate the lillies. Keeping it on cure and cure 2 does seem a bit much.

The confession stacks could work beautifully too with a few tweaks.

[Keridwyn]

Which five skills? Cause shroud of saints was weaker than what you got back. I'm sorry this is not a loss for the whm. Divine seal yeah it was and everyone has a weaker version now. Protect yeah ya lost it, and I had hoped you get a utility in it's place but whm did not. Esuna everyone lost but I don't think is huge has esuna isn't needed at every fight or instance. Some nice flexibility there. Cleric stance yeah you lost it, but with the mid change it really isn't a loss.

We still have to buy them back with slots, be they better or worse. What you are suggesting is we can have E4E only when we don't need Esuna which is sad at best since we are already behind in base skills.

We need a few replacements and they shouldn't be RNG based. What has us angry is we lost too much for too little in return.

[Feidam]

We still have to buy them back with slots, be they better or worse. What you are suggesting is we can have E4E only when we don't need Esuna which is sad at best since we are already behind in base skills.

We need a few replacements and they shouldn't be RNG based. What has us angry is we lost too much for too little in return.

Why not keep eye for and eye and give up cleric's stance when esuna is needed? Or rescue? Rescue will be nice for some encounters and not needed in others. If we can switch between fights with no downtime it becomes even less an issue as imo all healers will cast protect then drop it unless someone dies or the run takes a while. I don't think it is as black and white as people are making it out to be. I could be wrong but until we see the expansion we won't really know. The lack of a utility skill I do see as a larger problem.

[PotatoTree]

They need to focus more on what makes each healer special:

AST: focus on cards. What they did with 4.0 is good, with the lvl 70 ability and the two new cards. The stars aesthetic is also good.

SCH: shields, pets, and "tactics" (ie planning ahead). Focus on fairy skills and pre-emptive healing/sheilds. The new abilities do this well, with the fairy tether. The 50% heal thing should be given to WHM, and instead SCH should get something like a 5s timer on the target that does a big heal after 5s to play on the preemptive healing trope. And maybe some abilities that deal with positioning (like the PLD shield ability) to play on the "tactics" trope.

WHM: They should remove all RNG elements. Make WHM the safety healer that when shit goes down the drain WHM can pick things back up, while maintaining high healing over time. PoM, Bene, Tetra, etc plus all the HoTs. Abilities that fit well with this idea include non-weakness raise, larger range (maybe reduce aoe range on other healers and WHM range all 30y), that 50% heal trigger ability that SCH has, etc. They should give back 1.0 sacred prism (make the next move aoe) to allow for aoe esuna/aoe regen.

The current WHM design is just a bunch of abilities that fight with the WHM playstyle. I mean RNG? Procs from cure 2? How'd you even reliably use the lvl 70 skill on anyone but the main tank? You can play WHM without even looking at the lillies, so why even have it displayed at all?

I'm pretty sure they'll just buff WHM potency and leave it at that. It's probably too late to make any big mechanics changes, but WHM does need mechanics changes because the current mechanics are boring and very poorly deigned.