@Naoki Yoshida-> Make Samurai a Tank class!

[shao32]

snip

is like if i say we don't need another dps in stormblood, it would be a complete waste of time make another dps intead to improve the actual jobs and stats system.

in a mmo holy trinity based add more jobs that spots in end conten is a waste of time and resourses, add jobs is a way to add new gameplays and new experiences to do they role for all, say we dont need more tanks or healers but be open to recive more and more dps is a pretty selfish actitude.

[GMERC]

You don't actually believe they will add 2 dps jobs at the same time right?

I'd like to think they're smart enough to recognize that the best rate for additional jobs is probably 1:1:2 rather than 1:1:1.

[Averax]

I'm pretty sure they said they're not doing that, since they did it with DRK, and everyone was hoping that was going to be a DPS job.

[Shippuu]

I'd like to think they're smart enough to recognize that the best rate for additional jobs is probably 1:1:2 rather than 1:1:1.

If they're smart they'll continue to give tank and healers new jobs in the expansions considering those roles are more vital and have smaller numbers. By not doing that, and only giving more dps jobs when they already have twice the choices of available jobs than the other roles, you're forcing tanks and healers to continue being stuck with the same jobs for another 2 years. This is only going to give them reasons to switch to dps or leave, which is detrimental to the game's health. If SE is smart, they'll do this so they don't start hemorrhaging vital players who play the much needed roles.

[GMERC]

"those roles [tanks and healers] are more vital and have smaller numbers [sic]. By not doing that, and only giving more dps jobs when they already have twice the choices [sic] of available jobs than the other roles,

You mean like how casters were "stuck with the same jobs for another 2 years" during Heavensward? And melee players? I think Tanks and Healers will survive. What next, are you going to say we "need" SAM to fill your imaginary (and long-term unhealthy) designated "off-tank" role that WAR is pigeonholed into?

If these "vital players" you seem to be talking about are so flaky that they'd just up and quit their role unless they get a shiny new job every 2 years, maybe they're better off gone, because they're barely interested in it as it is.

[Ariane]

I'd like to think they're smart enough to recognize that the best rate for additional jobs is probably 1:1:2 rather than 1:1:1.

Currently we have one too many DPS if they want it at overall at 1:1:2, so 1:1:1 is actually ideal for Stormblood.

[Madepossible]

If they're smart they'll continue to give tank and healers new jobs in the expansions considering those roles are more vital and have smaller numbers. By not doing that, and only giving more dps jobs when they already have twice the choices of available jobs than the other roles, you're forcing tanks and healers to continue being stuck with the same jobs for another 2 years. This is only going to give them reasons to switch to dps or leave, which is detrimental to the game's health. If SE is smart, they'll do this so they don't start hemorrhaging vital players who play the much needed roles.

Hit the nail on that one!

[Shippuu]

You mean like how casters were "stuck with the same jobs for another 2 years" during Heavensward? And melee players? I think Tanks and Healers will survive. What next, are you going to say we "need" SAM to fill your imaginary (and long-term unhealthy) designated "off-tank" role that WAR is pigeonholed into?

Nah see, you don't get to break it down into sub-roles like that. The Duty finder etc. deals fully with DPS as a single role (barring Wolve's Den's strict party makeup.) You don't have content that's "Must have caster" in the party to complete, or "Must have Melee dps" to complete. You certainly have content that "Must have a healer" or "Must have a tank". The game revolves around that kind of content.

And arguably, BRD and MCH are both casters now, so yeah, casters got 2 new jobs in Heavenswards by that standard, or are you going to try and make excuses for why those wouldn't count? It's funny you'd bring up the whole "OT" spiel acting like that's a ridiculous notion when you just did that trying to break down the DPS role into sub-categories. Even then, the game loses little if it hemorrhages some dps, that is far less damaging to the health of the game than a small tank population getting even smaller.

If these "vital players" you seem to be talking about are so flaky that they'd just up and quit their role unless they get a shiny new job every 2 years, maybe they're better off gone, because they're barely interested in it as it is.

Man, playing an important role in a video game for 2 years straight is barely an inkling of interest! Not to mention if a new tank isn't added each expansion it means potential new tank jobs would be 4 years apart! Screw those people that make the queues pop amiright?

Please do go on about how little you care about the health of the game.

[Kyuuen]

-snip-

I bring DRK up because at no time in the past has it been known for being a tank. Yet you present SAM with a slew of abilities; which most of said abilities don't even show up within a singular title, as though it can't be anything but tank. Following the same logic then DRK should not be a tank, but here we are. My overall point is that past entries have no bearing for what is or could be in XIV.

[Shippuu]

I bring DRK up because at no time in the past has it been known for being a tank. Yet you present SAM with a slew of abilities; which most of said abilities don't even show up within a singular title, as though it can't be anything but. Following the same logic then DRK should not be a DPS, but here we are. My overall point is that past entries have no bearing for what is or could be in XIV.

I mean, except they do? This is a Final Fantasy game, and all of it's jobs have pulled from old Final Fantasy games. That isn't to say they can't add new unique jobs to the fray, but while they still have iconic and HIGHLY requested staple Final Fantasy jobs yet to implemented it's more strange to think they wouldn't continue to pick from those iconic jobs.

Then things need to be considered from a developmental standpoint. Tanks in this game wear Fending armor, so either future tanks will share this armor, or additional work needs to be done to make a future tank job wear a different class of armor. Not only is that more dev work needing time+money, but it also brings in new complications when it comes to itemization within the game. So going under the pretense they'll keep things on the easier side, because choosing the path of least resistance is often the norm for businesses, then future tanks will continue to share Fending gear.

Once we've established that, then we can look at what past Final Fantasy jobs wear such armor. That's a pretty small list. From that list, what jobs have more requests/popularity, you want to pick a job that has widespread appeal/allure to entice not only existing players to try them out, but new players to buy the game/expansion the job comes out in. So of the small list of heavy armor wearing Final Fantasy jobs, the obvious most popular one is Samurai. It also uses a slashing weapon, which while repetitive in the sense that the other 3 tanks have slashing weapon as well, from a design standpoint it keeps things simple. All tanks use slashing, continuing this trend eliminates the potential imbalance that could come with a tank that deals a different damage type. (This assumes the battle system reworks in 4.0 won't be removing/changing the way damage types works).

All I'm saying is that SAM as a tank logically fits what FFXIV's archetype is for a tank. It's popular/requested, it fits the armor, it fits the damage type, it is also a job with a romanticized fantasy that involves honor and protecting others, the same a knights. It doesn't need to have a history of defensive abilities to be a viable choice for a tank role because it meets so many of the other criteria, the fact it does have a history of at least some defensive abilities certainly doesn't hurt though either.

And I've never said SAM couldn't be anything but a tank, only that it should be a tank. Every job is a DPS. DPS is the default, it doesn't need arguments why it should be a DPS from a design/developmental standpoint because literally everything can be made into a DPS. Tank jobs, not so much, examples of tank-potential jobs in Final Fantasy games that fit FFXIV's definition of a tank are few and far between, and taking one of the best and most viable options for another tank and using it as another DPS removes it from the pool of very few options.