@Naoki Yoshida-> Make Samurai a Tank class!

[Shippuu]

I bring DRK up because at no time in the past has it been known for being a tank. Yet you present SAM with a slew of abilities; which most of said abilities don't even show up within a singular title, as though it can't be anything but. Following the same logic then DRK should not be a DPS, but here we are. My overall point is that past entries have no bearing for what is or could be in XIV.

I mean, except they do? This is a Final Fantasy game, and all of it's jobs have pulled from old Final Fantasy games. That isn't to say they can't add new unique jobs to the fray, but while they still have iconic and HIGHLY requested staple Final Fantasy jobs yet to implemented it's more strange to think they wouldn't continue to pick from those iconic jobs.

Then things need to be considered from a developmental standpoint. Tanks in this game wear Fending armor, so either future tanks will share this armor, or additional work needs to be done to make a future tank job wear a different class of armor. Not only is that more dev work needing time+money, but it also brings in new complications when it comes to itemization within the game. So going under the pretense they'll keep things on the easier side, because choosing the path of least resistance is often the norm for businesses, then future tanks will continue to share Fending gear.

Once we've established that, then we can look at what past Final Fantasy jobs wear such armor. That's a pretty small list. From that list, what jobs have more requests/popularity, you want to pick a job that has widespread appeal/allure to entice not only existing players to try them out, but new players to buy the game/expansion the job comes out in. So of the small list of heavy armor wearing Final Fantasy jobs, the obvious most popular one is Samurai. It also uses a slashing weapon, which while repetitive in the sense that the other 3 tanks have slashing weapon as well, from a design standpoint it keeps things simple. All tanks use slashing, continuing this trend eliminates the potential imbalance that could come with a tank that deals a different damage type. (This assumes the battle system reworks in 4.0 won't be removing/changing the way damage types works).

All I'm saying is that SAM as a tank logically fits what FFXIV's archetype is for a tank. It's popular/requested, it fits the armor, it fits the damage type, it is also a job with a romanticized fantasy that involves honor and protecting others, the same a knights. It doesn't need to have a history of defensive abilities to be a viable choice for a tank role because it meets so many of the other criteria, the fact it does have a history of at least some defensive abilities certainly doesn't hurt though either.

And I've never said SAM couldn't be anything but a tank, only that it should be a tank. Every job is a DPS. DPS is the default, it doesn't need arguments why it should be a DPS from a design/developmental standpoint because literally everything can be made into a DPS. Tank jobs, not so much, examples of tank-potential jobs in Final Fantasy games that fit FFXIV's definition of a tank are few and far between, and taking one of the best and most viable options for another tank and using it as another DPS removes it from the pool of very few options.

[shao32]

snip

in every ff game DRK was a first line soldier wearing heavy armor and sacrifice hp to increse the power of the next attack, something DRK do here but using MP instead, many ppl expect DRK be a dps for that, but the fact DRK never was a top dps so is pretty logic they choose the job for a tank spot and make they dont kill herself in the process more when cecil the iconic DRK pass they drk part of the story protecting other party members how dealt much more damage that hem, except the bard, even if DRK was a dps they still using mp instead of hp.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

No thanks, Samurai dps, red mage tank.

[Shippuu]

No thanks, Samurai dps, red mage tank.

So what gear is Red Mage gonna wear? Because part of the design decisions by SE is that tanks share gear which offers the benefit of being able to switch between any of the 3 tanks whenever needed, encouraging people to play those jobs for ease of gearing alone (3 for the price of 1 etc.) Is it going to wear it's own unique tier of armor? Not only would that pollute the loot pools even more than they already are, but SE already re-uses a ton of assets across the role armor, making a new tier of armor just for 1 job is a lot of extra work. If those aren't the options, then what, it's going to share gear with a DPS job? You think it's a good idea for tanks and dps to compete for gear? And if that's not going to happen, then what, RDM is going to wear the heaviest armor in the game which would be a pretty big visual step away from how it's usually always depicted?

Things that need to be considered.

[FinalWolf]

So what gear is Red Mage gonna wear? Because part of the design decisions by SE is that tanks share gear which offers the benefit of being able to switch between any of the 3 tanks whenever needed, encouraging people to play those jobs for ease of gearing alone (3 for the price of 1 etc.) Is it going to wear it's own unique tier of armor? Not only would that pollute the loot pools even more than they already are, but SE already re-uses a ton of assets across the role armor, making a new tier of armor just for 1 job is a lot of extra work. If those aren't the options, then what, it's going to share gear with a DPS job? You think it's a good idea for tanks and dps to compete for gear? And if that's not going to happen, then what, RDM is going to wear the heaviest armor in the game which would be a pretty big visual step away from how it's usually always depicted?

Things that need to be considered.

but muh anime 1000 folded dps sword

[Wolf_Heartnet]

So what gear is Red Mage gonna wear? Because part of the design decisions by SE is that tanks share gear which offers the benefit of being able to switch between any of the 3 tanks whenever needed, encouraging people to play those jobs for ease of gearing alone (3 for the price of 1 etc.) Is it going to wear it's own unique tier of armor? Not only would that pollute the loot pools even more than they already are, but SE already re-uses a ton of assets across the role armor, making a new tier of armor just for 1 job is a lot of extra work. If those aren't the options, then what, it's going to share gear with a DPS job? You think it's a good idea for tanks and dps to compete for gear? And if that's not going to happen, then what, RDM is going to wear the heaviest armor in the game which would be a pretty big visual step away from how it's usually always depicted?

Things that need to be considered.

Well, i believe Red Mage will be a healer but i will say this. If Red Mage were to be made into a tank, it doesn't necessarily need it's own gear. It completely depends on how the design for the job is done. They can make all the Red Mage spells scale off of Vit or Det or Strength or Parry etc instead of intelligence/mind. Wouldn't make much sense but it can be done.

For armor designs everyone is pretty much a visual step away from how they are depicted because the artifact armor aren't what everyone wears and even then, with glamours there are dark knights wearing swim trunks or bikinis. Most importantly there is a set of tank gear that looks like something a Red Mage would wear which is Sharlayan Custodian's armor set.

[Shippuu]

Well, i believe Red Mage will be a healer but i will say this. If Red Mage were to be made into a tank, it doesn't necessarily need it's own gear. It completely depends on how the design for the job is done. They can make all the Red Mage spells scale off of Vit or Det or Strength or Parry etc instead of intelligence/mind. Wouldn't make much sense but it can be done.

For armor designs everyone is pretty much a visual step away from how they are depicted because the artifact armor aren't what everyone wears and even then, with glamours there are dark knights wearing swim trunks or bikinis. Most importantly there is a set of tank gear that looks like something a Red Mage would wear which is Sharlayan Custodian's armor set.

"Glamour" is not a valid excuse. And a single armor set, from a dungeon where every job has the same appearance of the armor just palette swapped is a very bad example, especially when the same could be said about SAM tank and the Yasha/Asuran Fending armor (Which wasn't a universally used appearance like the Sharlayan stuff from the Library.)


Red Mage seems an obvious choice for a DPS that would use DEX gear. There are far more sets from that category of armor that would fit them far better, as well as a dex making more sense as a stat for them than VIT+STR.

[Wolf_Heartnet]

"Glamour" is not a valid excuse. And a single armor set, from a dungeon where every job has the same appearance of the armor just palette swapped is a very bad example, especially when the same could be said about SAM tank and the Yasha/Asuran Fending armor (Which wasn't a universally used appearance like the Sharlayan stuff from the Library.)


Red Mage seems an obvious choice for a DPS that would use DEX gear. There are far more sets from that category of armor that would fit them far better, as well as a dex making more sense as a stat for them than VIT+STR.

Saying that glamour is not a valid excuse is DEFINITELY not a valid excuse. Especially since you do not even explain yourself regarding that. So that argument alone has been made automatically invalid. The reason for the 170 tank gear looking the way it is, is because in development for heavensward, their decision for the next tank came down to Dark Knight or Samurai. It wouldn't surprise me that they had already made gear ahead of time for the samurai.

And while Bard/Machinist has some sets that are similar to Red Mage it doesn't neccesarily make as much sense for a caster to be a dex class. Like i said, it makes more sense for it to be a healer because it could use white magic to heal and then go into cleric stance to use black magic. It just makes more sense.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

. They can make all the Red Mage spells scale off of Vit or Det or Strength or Parry etc instead of intelligence/mind. Wouldn't make much sense but it can be done.

Most importantly there is a set of tank gear that looks like something a Red Mage would wear which is Sharlayan Custodian's armor set.

All DRK spells scale off of VIT/STR, and so does PLD's spells, Clemency and Flash. That excuse doesn't even begin to hold water. Also yes, Sharlayan Custodian is Red Mage gear.

[Wolf_Heartnet]

All DRK spells scale off of VIT/STR, and so does PLD's spells, Clemency and Flash. That excuse doesn't even begin to hold water. Also yes, Sharlayan Custodian is Red Mage gear.

Thanks for agreeing with me? Don't see why ur saying its an excuse when you agree with me...