@Naoki Yoshida-> Make Samurai a Tank class!

[Shippuu]

I mean to be fair, they had insane damage previous games the less health they had but um if they had to have like 100 or so hp in dungeons with aoes that hit everyone that are unavoidable because thats how they can maximize dps it would just be annoying lol. They have potential to be high damage dps but because of the whole sacrifice hp mechanic couldn't work with current mechanics it would just drop you on the floor faster than a Dragoon.

Not sure if this is referencing SAM or DRK (in one iteration Samurai did have an ability where they did extra damage if their HP was low). But assuming it's DRK. But yes, DRG are notorious in FFXIV for eating dirt by standing in AoE circles, considering a DPS DRK would wear the same armor class, they would likely garner an even worse reputation. A job that has to lower it's health to do damage might not work too well in FFXIV, where often times enemy raid-wide damage is very high, with many instances where DPS can get 1 shot even from full health if say they had Blood for Blood up. A DRK DPS would have likely needed a large passive boost in VIT, or some serious defensive cooldowns (which would still be against "how they've always been!!1one" ) to be viable as an HP sacrificing DPS.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

But honestly though before this game did you really see DRK as a tank? ^^

I saw DRK as a tank, yes. They typically had higher vitality and HP than other heavily armored jobs and could frequently take several hits without really dropping while using HP smartly to deal incredible damage. Ever since I first saw them, I'd always considered them to be a high risk/high reward tank.

[Iromi]

I saw DRK as a tank, yes. They typically had higher vitality and HP than other heavily armored jobs and could frequently take several hits without really dropping while using HP smartly to deal incredible damage. Ever since I first saw them, I'd always considered them to be a high risk/high reward tank.

Well fair enough, because we all have our own opinions and interpretations of what it represents Well that is kind of what DRK is in FFXIV anyway. I thought it was very creative how Yoshida did it.

[SpookyGhost]

...

Just popping in to say that I hope SAM is a tank in 4.0 just for you, Shippuu. You care about what role SAM is more than anyone else on the OF, so you really deserve this bit of joy in your life. I hope it's everything you want it to be, truly.

[Shippuu]

Just popping in to say that I hope SAM is a tank in 4.0 just for you, Shippuu. You care about what role SAM is more than anyone else on the OF, so you really deserve this bit of joy in your life. I hope it's everything you want it to be, truly.

I'll still play the hell out of it even if it's a DPS. But thank you lol.

[Kyuuen]

Hmm, out of curiosity, how would people feel if SAM were built opposite to Warrior? In that it's mainly a DPS, but could step in as a tank? Not entirely sure how that would work as far DF and what not though.

[Shippuu]

Hmm, out of curiosity, how would people feel if SAM were built opposite to Warrior? In that it's mainly a DPS, but could step in as a tank? Not entirely sure how that would work as far DF and what not though.

Because having a job that can keep up with other DPS, yet be tanky at the same time is terribly unbalanced. You'd start seeing parties filled with just them because there's be little reason to bring squishier DPS jobs (or even tanks if this supposed job is tanky enough). There's also little need for DPS to step up and tank anything, already the first thing to go in 8 man parties is often the second tank, so what need is there for a DPS who can tank some stuff? If you're going to do that you might as well just increase the damage tanks deal, yknow?

[Brian_]

I just wanted to clear up some fallacies here.

We already have enough tanks in this game. We have 3 which brings to the table enough to choose w/e you want to bring to a fight. A hard hitting physical damage taker in PLD, a magic debuffer and magical hit taking tank in DRK, and the high HP hardest hitting off tank in WAR. What the heck else would another tank bring?

You might want to take some time to understand what you're talking about before opening your mouth about it.

The current state of tanks is bad. You have a duality within the trinity at the MT role and no options at the OT role. PLDs and DRKs are fighting over the MT role because of their overlapping design and drop in performance as an OT. Meanwhile, WARs are basically mandatory in every serious progression party because they have no competition in the OT role. SE has specifically said that they find WAR's current stranglehold over a raid spot to be problematic.

So no, 3 tanks is clearly not enough. If you played a tank role then that'd be pretty clear to you. If you want to play a melee DPS, you have options. If you want to play a ranged DPS, you have options. If you want to play a caster DPS, you have options. Now, with RDM, if you want to play a mix of those things, you have an option.

But, if you want to OT, you have no options. You play WAR, end of discussion. Insisting on playing PLD or DRK as an OT and getting rejected from every serious group is not an option.

I mean to be fair, they had insane damage previous games the less health they had but um if they had to have like 100 or so hp in dungeons with aoes that hit everyone that are unavoidable because thats how they can maximize dps it would just be annoying lol. They have potential to be high damage dps but because of the whole sacrifice hp mechanic couldn't work with current mechanics it would just drop you on the floor faster than a Dragoon.

Except WAR already sacrifices HP to deal damage. They drop 25% of their max HP and a strong defensive CD in order to deal more damage. They also waste the defensive bonus of their defensive CDs just to push stacks and more damage.

And, within that thematic framework, all tanks sacrifice eHP for damage. PLDs tank in SwO instead of ShO for more damage. WARs tank in Deliverance for more damage. DRKs tank Gritless for more damage. What DRKs are currently doing is not far off from the idea of trading HP for damage.