3.2 PvP: Feast Game Mode Discussion Thread.

[xxczx]

Somersault is on a 40 second cooldown when traited. As far as cooldowns are concerned, a monk can answer to every aetherflow usage if they're quick enough. This is also more of a detriment to scholar than it is to summoner because having access to only 3 aetherflow usages compared to a possible 6 is a huge hit to their healing potential. At the very least, somersault doesn't need that lowered cooldown.

And I agree, Somersault has too low of a cd. If they want to make it that low of a CD, they should lower GL timer

this gives monks either two options, use spam oip punch and loose GL or keep GL up while using oip once/twice

[RiceisNice]

And I agree, Somersault has too low of a cd. If they want to make it that low of a CD, they should lower GL timer

MNKs have the most detriment when they lose uptime, along with the longest start up time (cooldowns withholding) I think that's what they wanted to avoid. The problem with this (and I mentioned it before) is that it feels really short sighted if that's what they wanted to address that specifically; Instead of just making it easier to rebuild GL stacks through a lowered somersault cooldown, it's also giving them free access to OIP spam all that more often which hugely detriments SMN and MCH (and again, these jobs compared to their peers, BRD/BLM, have arguably stronger/reliable burst, espesically since SMN has very few counterplays to it aside from OIP). If aetherflow isn't affected, then it leaves the question to why MCH ammo/shot procs are still affected (on top of them already having lowered potency, so I can't really say they'd burst better than BRD either).

And as much as the SMNs want to cry foul on aetherflow being removed, I think SCH has more ground to stand on with the current state of their kit. At least n the former, SMN has control on when they use aetherflow to perform their job effectively (leaving up the guesswork to MNK in reaction time). SCH has no luxury since they need aetherflow to active to have a healing presence (otherwise, it's a poor man's burst healing if they popped aetherflow as they needed, something that a WHM can do much more effectively on top of their other tools).

this gives monks either two options, use spam oip punch and loose GL or keep GL up while using oip once/twice

It'd have to be a really tight window to be honest. GL is currently like 12 seconds now? Somersault gives peanut butter for a whooping 6 seconds which is probably around 3 GCDs at max stack. Though wasn't GL also formerly around 10 seconds, you'd need around 5-6 seconds of GCDs to be able to hit your third combo starting from scratch (and IIRC, peanut butter leaves you stanceless after-the-fact)


On a side note, I'm also confused to their approach with removing the healing debuff. If they're afraid it was giving ninja and warrior too much of an edge over their peers, I have to point out, what can a ninja do over monk and dragoon, all things considered? (aside from stealthing with heavy medal, that shite needs to stop) It's less applicable healer pressure and it's no longer a a game factor that healers need to consider now.

[AdamZ]

Empyreal barrage is 660, farshot is 240, you have sidewinder for 250, and bloodletter for 150. That's 1300 with a setup that requires 2 DoTs and all instant casts.

I don't think you know how MCH works, because some of the things you're saying doesn't add up, specifically gauss round. All rapid fire does is make your weaponskill casts instant and reduces GCD to 1 second, not triple anything like barrage does.

Believe Farshot is 170 and Enhanced Farshot II makes it 200 not 240, unless what I am reading is dated.

Was assuming an instant skill could hit 3 times in one GCD, i.e. get 3 hits off in 2.5 seconds, on Rapid Fire. Not the same as Bards directly but damage output/result is similar. Rapid Fire period damage to 580 from 660 I noted (assuming split, slug clean, with ammo). Correct that I nerf'ed hard on Gauss Round. Don't claim to be a Mech expert by any means.

[RiceisNice]

Believe Farshot is 170 and Enhanced Farshot II makes it 200 not 240, unless what I am reading is dated.

Was assuming an instant skill could hit 3 times in one GCD, i.e. get 3 hits off in 2.5 seconds, on Rapid Fire. Not the same as Bards directly but damage output/result is similar. Rapid Fire period damage to 580 from 660 I noted (assuming split, slug clean, with ammo). Correct that I nerf'ed hard on Gauss Round. Don't claim to be a Mech expert by any means.

Your information is outdated; They buffed farshot in 3.25 so it's 200(240) potency.

The functionality of rapid fire is different from barrage, yeah. It's still over the course of 3 seconds though with a 1 second GCD, and the best setup is a clean-slug-clean, which requires 2 GCDs previously to set up those procs (and a minimum of 4 ammo to maximize damage). It's comparable to BRD's output, but it also needs to be taken into consideration that some of MCH's skills aren't conventional as bards. Specifically, ricochet which gets diluted damage with more targets (including faries and egis), it loses 100 potency just from having another target within range. Combine that with the lack of utility like peaeon, a lack of synergy with DoTs for pressure, and no self-healing wiht little self-preservation skills, burst damage was honestly the last thing that MCH needed a nerf in relation to what BRD can do.

[xxczx]

It'd have to be a really tight window to be honest. GL is currently like 12 seconds now? Somersault gives peanut butter for a whooping 6 seconds which is probably around 3 GCDs at max stack. Though wasn't GL also formerly around 10 seconds, you'd need around 5-6 seconds of GCDs to be able to hit your third combo starting from scratch (and IIRC, peanut butter leaves you stanceless after-the-fact)

GL is 24s in PvP off the top of my head but 14s in PvE. I'm trying to think of what Monk really gives to the team now in PvP and all I can think of is Dragon Kick (which is useless because 9/10 teams roll MCH/BRD), Somersault for healers, Axe Kick to time WAR/melee burst. Nothing really else after this... Their damage is not like NINs/DRGs. We need cooldown time to get our burst back up (Chakra) and if you really want to go full out burst, we need Somersault/Axe kick for ourselves so we can use Tornado Kick.

[RiceisNice]

GL is 24s in PvP off the top of my head but 14s in PvE. I'm trying to think of what Monk really gives to the team now in PvP and all I can think of is Dragon Kick (which is useless because 9/10 teams roll MCH/BRD), Somersault for healers, Axe Kick to time WAR/melee burst. Nothing really else after this... Their damage is not like NINs/DRGs. We need cooldown time to get our burst back up (Chakra) and if you really want to go full out burst, we need Somersault/Axe kick for ourselves so we can use Tornado Kick.

28 seconds actually, with a damage bonus of 30%. I just took another look at notes, which is pretty damn absurd in consideration with everything else. Honestly speaking, the damage output of a monk is contingent on maintaining GL3, not attaining it, if that makes sense.

I also wouldn't say ninja does more than monk on a typical scenario, considering higher damage buffs (GL3 + twin snacks, and FoF if we're gonna go that further). The cooldown burst also applies to nin and drg as well (or really, any dps that isnt blm). Axe kick also pacifies in an AoE (and is the only pacification that has on-demand access), it's something to consider, MNK's pvp skills are much more effective at shutting down the opposing team on different levelsl DRG only has int reduction on caster dps (and running with your example most teams roll MCH/BRD), and nin having silence, which doesnt prevent ability heals, so long-duration silence isn't as effective as we'd like to think. They also have a bit more self-preservation than ninja does through FoE (10% mitigation, not to scoff at) and third wind /w traited internal release

[Mirili]

I'm trying to think of what Monk really gives to the team now in PvP

It's not like they've taken away OIP. They're making ONE buff an exception to dispel. You can still strip damned near everything else. >_>

[Dimitrii]

It's not like they've taken away OIP. They're making ONE buff an exception to dispel. You can still strip damned near everything else. >_>

What would be awesome is to have another job capable of stripping all GL stacks on a 40 sec cooldown cause you know that would give that job purpose >_>. Give it to me as DRG cause all DRGs have going for them is initial burst, battle liteny, and being the disembowel b**ch for brd/mch.

[Petite]

I'm trying to think of what Monk really gives to the team now in PvP and all I can think of is Dragon Kick (which is useless because 9/10 teams roll MCH/BRD), Somersault for healers, Axe Kick to time WAR/melee burst. Nothing really else after this... Their damage is not like NINs/DRGs. We need cooldown time to get our burst back up (Chakra) and if you really want to go full out burst, we need Somersault/Axe kick for ourselves so we can use Tornado Kick.

Trade ya Skewer for Somersault ok?

Also maybe MNK does slightly less than NIN/DRG because they have a positional to all of their weaponskills, but sustained damage is less important than burst. You have 8 OGCDs you can pop as soon as your target reaches 50%, letting you launch an attack almost every second when in GL3. MNKs got great buffs last patch and still you want a pity party? Because you can't shutdown 2 jobs anymore?

[RiceisNice]

Trade ya Skewer for Somersault ok?

Also maybe MNK does slightly less than NIN/DRG because they have a positional to all of their weaponskills, but sustained damage is less important than burst. You have 8 OGCDs you can pop as soon as your target reaches 50%, letting you launch an attack almost every second when in GL3. MNKs got great buffs last patch and still you want a pity party? Because you can't shutdown 2 jobs anymore?

Popping 8 oGCDs is nowhere near instantaneous, nor would anyone stay at 50% hp for that long, one way or another.