The Ninja Superthread

[Taranok]

I thought it'd be better if it was off of Shadowfang, but I'm glad it's not.
If it was, it was just be used every 18s or every other Shadowfang (the extension would be adjusted accordingly).
All 3 finishers have a decent place in the rotation.
And each of them have to be tracked because they branch at the end.

You should be able to use AE twice a minute while keeping up DE yourself.
I don't see the problem with that. Being able to use AE a lot is a perk of having a WAR.
Honestly, we have it pretty good in that regard.

MNK, for example, will almost always have to keep up their own Dragon Kick, unless they have another MNK.
BLM, SMN, BRD and MCH have to rely on a different Job to get their own resistance lowering debuff.
DRG can do his own and it affects other jobs, but no one, save another DRG, will take the pressure off him.

We can do it ourselves, and if we get a WAR then they can do it for us.
We have it the best, by far.
I don't know, maybe it's because I don't find anything that special about doing AE.
It may be the highest potency finisher but Armor Crush feels more significant because its Huton extension translates into more damage than AE.

Then, when everything is upheld, you get to actually do AE and it's great.
Even when you keep up DE yourself, Armor Crush let's you 'bank' Huton time to add more AE into certain parts of the fight.
That is the best thing about the new rotation.

The reason I'd put DE before shadowfang is that, right now, the NIN's damage is contingent on whether a WAR is in the group or not. While other classes have the option to do better for the introduction of another class, usually the exclusion of another class doesn't make you alter your rotation. The damage going up or down is whatever, as Bards deal with it with Dragoons. But if you look at a Dragoon rotation, they naturally keep piercing up as a natural consequence of their standard damage rotation.

Bards and Machinists? Same thing. Their rotation stays the same regardless of whether a Dragoon is there. Even Monks are still in this category.

Ninjas, on the other hand, aren't. They're the only class that has to alter its rotation based around the inclusion or exclusion of another class, and this leads it to be clunky. The standard rotation for a Ninja post HW (for GCD abilities) is DE > Mutilate > Shadowfang > Armor Crush > AE. This naturally works into a rotation that is DE->Shadow Fang->AC or AE, mutilate between any of these abilities as needed.

Your standard 1 minute rotation is going to be 3 DEs, 2 ACs, and 1 AE. There is no other rotation that maintains DE that allows an extra AE. Unless you mean Duality, but I don't think that counts within the context of a GCD rotation.

When you throw out an AE is when you cannot cast AC as you'd be clipping time too much. Sure, you can "spend" a buffered Huton into AE to get more damage at specific phases of the fight, but this doesn't feel particularly great within the rotation.

So we now have a rotation where our highest damage rotation is used the least amount of time, and we're constantly playing buff/debuff maintenance anyways. All the while, we are still the only class that has to modify its rotation significantly over the existence of just one class.

Right now, I still enjoy the class, I'm going to play it regardless of having access to a WAR babysitter, but without a WAR in the group, the rotation just really isn't that interesting.

[Korashy]

snip

That's a pretty good summary.

[Allyrion]

Snip.

What you're saying is basically my point, but that's why I like it.
We have synergy with another Job, but not just 'hey, my damage goes up' synergy.
We actually get to adapt our rotation dynamically to it.

If they're not there, then we have another rotation to compensate for it.
The rotation w/o the WAR is the one I actually like more because it's more involved.
And like I said, we can actually bank Huton time to get more AEs off during a certain period in the fight.
I think that feels great and satisfying because it adds a layer of planning ahead.

Personally, I like the maintenance aspect of it.
The last thing I want for the class is to have a combo that's just an automatic debuff combo, such that you take care of Shadowfang and Dancing Edge in the same go, every 18s.

Pure potency is just boring to me.
The damage combo is great because it has that limited space.
My only qualm is that I'd rather the positional on Dancing Edge so that AE can be less restricted when you actually do get to it. Fulfilling that raw damage niche.