When is it OK to say, "It's Not OK"

[Eirwen]

To be honest (my opinion) leaving (saying something came up) or kicking the person w/o saying anything is probably better then say sorry your just not cut out for this. A statement like that will cause more issues then just getting kicked. Someone getting kicked would typically get a wth reaction. It would cause confusion and the brain to start to think why did they get kicked but, it would be better then them hearing they suck. Just my opinion.

And IMHO making a statement can lead to either a heavy discussion where both parties defend themselves, or a milder discussion (or possible explanation) where the people who were not cut out for this hear what they did wrong and learn from their mistakes.

[MeiUshu]

And IMHO making a statement can lead to either a heavy discussion where both parties defend themselves, or a milder discussion (or possible explanation) where the people who were not cut out for this hear what they did wrong and learn from their mistakes.

hearing from someone that you*suck* is irrilevant if it comes from an unknown person...that is the reaction it generates generally, an intelligent person would explain why you suck, just bluntanly saying that word means aboslutely nothing in this game. I was told I suck prior starting Levi EX because I still had low gears or rather lvl 50 gears not yet upgraded....guess what ...I never died, while the so super geared kept being raised by...ME....so again saying *you suck* is totally dumb. Being kicked because you dont know is dumb...and in no way productive.. but is me

Mei

[Eirwen]

/snip

Being told you are doing a terrible job during a run is one thing, but to be told that "you suck" BEFORE engaging (also during) in anything just because you ilevel is on the low side is terrible and discriminative, i.m.o. It really makes me hate this ilevel thing more by the day. Way to go showing them that it takes skill to handle situations! I would totally laugh at that super geared person afterwards. Just because they got a higher ilevel doesn't mean that they are good. But when do you say to them that being a high ilevel bragger "is not okay"?

[HakuroDK]

Being told you are doing a terrible job during a run is one thing, but to be told that "you suck" BEFORE engaging (also during) in anything just because you ilevel is on the low side is terrible and discriminative, i.m.o. It really makes me hate this ilevel thing more by the day. Way to go showing them that it takes skill to handle situations! I would totally laugh at that super geared person afterwards. Just because they got a higher ilevel doesn't mean that they are good. But when do you say to them that being a high ilevel bragger "is not okay"?

OH MY GOD, THIS.

I was running Copperbell HM about a month after it came out. I was 20 ilvls above the minimum ilvl requirement (which is a pretty safe place for any content, really). I was tanking with this White Mage who kept calling me a terrible tank because I couldn't single-handedly hold off an entire group of enemies by myself without needing a single heal (while he was holyspamming to high heavens), Got so bad that, once we hit the boss room (a boss I have tanked very easily since day 1 of 2.1), I was just like "Sorry, I'm clearly not good enough to fight this boss. I hope you find a better tank soon." and just quit.

Roetip: If you're going in an HM dungeon or trial and someone is in the bare minimum required gear, that does not mean they suck. They're not at their highest potential, sure, but they could have enough skill to optimize their job. That's why there is a minimum ilvl on everything in the endgame. EX Trials and Raids I can kinda understand, but it is not okay, in HMs, to criticize someone right out of the gate due to their gear level.

[Symbiant]

Snip

I am pretty sure the op stated that when you know it was not going to work. Based off that assumption I would think that the op has tried everything in ones power to remedy in the situation and @ that point it is either leave or kick them. I personally don't tolerate people that are making my game time a second job and I will only put up with so much before I either leave or kick them.

As I stated before the lesser evil is removing the bad apple from the barrel of good apples or removing ones self from such situations. An entire group should not have to grind through 3 hrs of bs because someone has the inability to learn / adapt after multiple explanations.

I am not saying kick someone immediately but, there is a time when it is to be done and that time is when I decide it is time. I don't care about the current p.c. / coddling that goes on in today's generation. I am about whats best for the group and my self and if it hurts someone coddled persons feeling I really don't care.

It's just like running a company when your expense are up and you have to cut or shut down.. well you have to either fire people or reduce cost. If you have to fire people that's just the way it goes. Nothing personal it's just the logical decision to cut 50 people to save 1200 peoples jobs. It's that simple.

[Kazumac]

I don't care about the current p.c. / coddling that goes on in today's generation. I am about whats best for the group and my self and if it hurts someone coddled persons feeling I really don't care.

I also feel the name calling and lack of real advice is quite prevalent. I think the best advice especially when you are in the thick of it is direct and pointed advice or identification of the issue. (Quite possibly we are advocating the same approach) I see far too many "player xyz your dps is horrible" vs "player xyz your damage needs to be higher during that phase. Save your raging strikes/fester/other cool downs etc."

Both call out the issue in question. One facilitates improvement. The other usually evokes a defensive response. My approach is not coddling and sure some people will take offense but at least I've left them with something they can hopefully use to improve.

[Symbiant]

snip

I think we have some possible comprehension issues here. In my other post; (the one you are quoting) I stated "Based off that assumption I would think that the op has tried everything in ones power to remedy in the situation"

So at this point the above what you have stated had already been applied. There comes a point when personal frustration out weighs the point of trying to improve someone. If any one tries to work with someone to the point of there own frustration then that is coddling.

Some have the belief that this kid of coddled approach will improve society but, it has proven otherwise. Crime rates are way up compared to older times. Kids going into schools shooting each other. It all comes from a coddled life.

While I do appreciate that you and others try to help people to the best of your knowledge and as I do my self but, there is a line in the sand and that's when I become mentally / emotionally involved once that occurs its time to remove the problem or remove my self from the problem.