When is it OK to say, "It's Not OK"

[Schizm]

Hey guys, I would just like to chime in here.

Please everyone, just take a step back for a second and allow me to put my two cents about my original post.

My original post was more about when would it be an acceptable situation to tell another player that maybe this isn't or they aren't going to succeed in the event, possibly to have that someone bow out rather than get kicked. The way I see it, telling someone anything similar to my prior comment would discourage anyone from feeling properly treated in the game, which would cause some players to regress or maybe quit the game.

The bashing that occurs is crazy enough that if I was on the other end taking the bashing I would be really upset. There has been players that have raged so bad from taking abuse that they quit the game to only come back a few days later. That's pretty extreme but understandable when someone gets their feelings hurt.

[Vespar]

Hey guys, I would just like to chime in here.

Please everyone, just take a step back for a second and allow me to put my two cents about my original post.

My original post was more about when would it be an acceptable situation to tell another player that maybe this isn't or they aren't going to succeed in the event, possibly to have that someone bow out rather than get kicked. The way I see it, telling someone anything similar to my prior comment would discourage anyone from feeling properly treated in the game, which would cause some players to regress or maybe quit the game.

The bashing that occurs is crazy enough that if I was on the other end taking the bashing I would be really upset. There has been players that have raged so bad from taking abuse that they quit the game to only come back a few days later. That's pretty extreme but understandable when someone gets their feelings hurt.

I hear your point, but There's a flip side to this that just comes with human nature. Most people don't like hearing that they aren't up to snuff that's true, but a good chunk of those people, even if told in the nicest way possible, will feel hurt by such comments and after enough times of failing at a run or being told they aren't up to snuff (whether its that players' fault or not) that person will eventually just lie down beaten and give up.

Since experiencing players negativity (even if its not directly at me) I have come to the point where I will just wait until the content to be become easy enough to beat by the majority purely because I can't stand the negativity. I am not bad at my job by any means, and that sucks because I know I'm not a bad player, and I can win many fights with a little practice. It just comes down to at the end of the day, how much negativity or abuse I can handle from others. And Im sorry to say Ive long since hit my limit for it.
Coil could be the coolest story on the planet, but until the negativity on inexperienced players dies down I wont even try to finish turns 6-13.

[Schizm]

The comment about waiting til the content becomes easy enough to beat happened to me in FFXI. It happened so early that the rest of my time (years of it) was soloing as BLM and other jobs but my subjob was always aimed to healing myself in fights. When I played this way, one death set me back 3 hours of work or maybe my whole night of playing. I ended up leaving the server, lost my linkshell and lost some friends because of this.

Maybe SE should make the class guilds aim at allowing people to play content and be graded or taught whatt to do, and build solid players where they played scenarios out and learned from them.

Sorry to hear that this is happening to you, as well as other players, it's the thought that I was sadly the one that open the gates of hell that everyone else followed and left someone hurt a few days ago, that I even had to say, this is wrong. So wrong that I went back to crafting and realy haven't played coils in the last few days.

[Ophie-Mio]

The comment about waiting til the content becomes easy enough to beat happened to me in FFXI. It happened so early that the rest of my time (years of it) was soloing as BLM and other jobs but my subjob was always aimed to healing myself in fights. When I played this way, one death set me back 3 hours of work or maybe my whole night of playing. I ended up leaving the server, lost my linkshell and lost some friends because of this.

Maybe SE should make the class guilds aim at allowing people to play content and be graded or taught whatt to do, and build solid players where they played scenarios out and learned from them.

So wrong that I went back to crafting and realy haven't played coils in the last few days.

All this is sad but only because it's so excessive. I've had someone tell me that he couldn't run with me and it didn't make me stop everything the way you did (It's not the same game but the mentality remains). There is a point where your own pride needs to come into play and you need to stand up for yourself. Even if that's walking away from the party and doing better for yourself.

I left that party remarking with the actual reason why we wiped so much and went back to raiding and doing what I do, only better and more disciplined. It's a game, yes, but I want to play it well.

The game ITSELF and leveling itself is designed to teach you what to do. There are so many guides out there showing different points of view.

If you cannot succeed in this game it is because you as the player have chosen not to.

[Symbiant]

Hey guys, I would just like to chime in here.

I see that you are trying to be considerate and that is a commendable trait but, my question to you would be who's emotional status is more important? 1 person or 7 other people even in a dungeon crawl its 1 person or 3 people. If someone is so bad that they are making everyone miserable the lesser evil clause has to be applied.

To be honest (my opinion) leaving (saying something came up) or kicking the person w/o saying anything is probably better then say sorry your just not cut out for this. A statement like that will cause more issues then just getting kicked. Someone getting kicked would typically get a wth reaction. It would cause confusion and the brain to start to think why did they get kicked but, it would be better then them hearing they suck. Just my opinion.

[Eirwen]

To be honest (my opinion) leaving (saying something came up) or kicking the person w/o saying anything is probably better then say sorry your just not cut out for this. A statement like that will cause more issues then just getting kicked. Someone getting kicked would typically get a wth reaction. It would cause confusion and the brain to start to think why did they get kicked but, it would be better then them hearing they suck. Just my opinion.

And IMHO making a statement can lead to either a heavy discussion where both parties defend themselves, or a milder discussion (or possible explanation) where the people who were not cut out for this hear what they did wrong and learn from their mistakes.

[MeiUshu]

And IMHO making a statement can lead to either a heavy discussion where both parties defend themselves, or a milder discussion (or possible explanation) where the people who were not cut out for this hear what they did wrong and learn from their mistakes.

hearing from someone that you*suck* is irrilevant if it comes from an unknown person...that is the reaction it generates generally, an intelligent person would explain why you suck, just bluntanly saying that word means aboslutely nothing in this game. I was told I suck prior starting Levi EX because I still had low gears or rather lvl 50 gears not yet upgraded....guess what ...I never died, while the so super geared kept being raised by...ME....so again saying *you suck* is totally dumb. Being kicked because you dont know is dumb...and in no way productive.. but is me

Mei

[Eirwen]

/snip

Being told you are doing a terrible job during a run is one thing, but to be told that "you suck" BEFORE engaging (also during) in anything just because you ilevel is on the low side is terrible and discriminative, i.m.o. It really makes me hate this ilevel thing more by the day. Way to go showing them that it takes skill to handle situations! I would totally laugh at that super geared person afterwards. Just because they got a higher ilevel doesn't mean that they are good. But when do you say to them that being a high ilevel bragger "is not okay"?

[HakuroDK]

Being told you are doing a terrible job during a run is one thing, but to be told that "you suck" BEFORE engaging (also during) in anything just because you ilevel is on the low side is terrible and discriminative, i.m.o. It really makes me hate this ilevel thing more by the day. Way to go showing them that it takes skill to handle situations! I would totally laugh at that super geared person afterwards. Just because they got a higher ilevel doesn't mean that they are good. But when do you say to them that being a high ilevel bragger "is not okay"?

OH MY GOD, THIS.

I was running Copperbell HM about a month after it came out. I was 20 ilvls above the minimum ilvl requirement (which is a pretty safe place for any content, really). I was tanking with this White Mage who kept calling me a terrible tank because I couldn't single-handedly hold off an entire group of enemies by myself without needing a single heal (while he was holyspamming to high heavens), Got so bad that, once we hit the boss room (a boss I have tanked very easily since day 1 of 2.1), I was just like "Sorry, I'm clearly not good enough to fight this boss. I hope you find a better tank soon." and just quit.

Roetip: If you're going in an HM dungeon or trial and someone is in the bare minimum required gear, that does not mean they suck. They're not at their highest potential, sure, but they could have enough skill to optimize their job. That's why there is a minimum ilvl on everything in the endgame. EX Trials and Raids I can kinda understand, but it is not okay, in HMs, to criticize someone right out of the gate due to their gear level.

[Symbiant]

Snip

I am pretty sure the op stated that when you know it was not going to work. Based off that assumption I would think that the op has tried everything in ones power to remedy in the situation and @ that point it is either leave or kick them. I personally don't tolerate people that are making my game time a second job and I will only put up with so much before I either leave or kick them.

As I stated before the lesser evil is removing the bad apple from the barrel of good apples or removing ones self from such situations. An entire group should not have to grind through 3 hrs of bs because someone has the inability to learn / adapt after multiple explanations.

I am not saying kick someone immediately but, there is a time when it is to be done and that time is when I decide it is time. I don't care about the current p.c. / coddling that goes on in today's generation. I am about whats best for the group and my self and if it hurts someone coddled persons feeling I really don't care.

It's just like running a company when your expense are up and you have to cut or shut down.. well you have to either fire people or reduce cost. If you have to fire people that's just the way it goes. Nothing personal it's just the logical decision to cut 50 people to save 1200 peoples jobs. It's that simple.