Removing elemental nukes from WHM

[Radacci]

Oh the turn undead spell takes a NOT undead monster and makes them behave like they are undead ( I believe the effect is called "zombie"). Then the WHM can use cure and raise on them and slap them silly. Also funny to use on bosses that try to cure themselves XD

oh ok, and it would be quite annoying if mobs cast zombie on your party, and WHM whipes party with curaga
raise on mobs sounds excessive and OP

[Biggs]

I would be in favor of removing the basic general damage spells and replacing them with holy magic as well as making this job excel at killing the undead.

[kazaran]

Hopefully they will change it. Elementals belong on blm, and perhaps some on Arcanist, but that's because they hinted as THM being a precursor, and you will see why.

Whm needs weakign effects more then BLM, some dots, and superior undead control. Holy, Banish, sear, Dia, and other like and white based. Doesn't mean on the undead they can't have damaging spells, they should on undead, and dark, and BLM based be resisted.

[Kinseykinz]

Lol I meant we get multiple bars and the bar itself is easier to manage. 1.0's was a pia.


So we can have two rows of abilities up at the same time.


BLM should always be superior to WHM in DPS. Except maybe for undead. I liked in the first page a suggestion to give WHM turn undead spell so they can nuke with their white magic - it wouldnt be as efficient right away as BLM since BLM wouldn't need to load up the buff but it could make WHM do good damage once loaded (making WHM feel like they have nice numbers (large numbers) but because of the magic buff needing to be applied would still make BLM superior since BLM would go straight to the dps like other dps classes )


Of course between DPS like classes BLM, DRG, and MNK they should be balanced.

Again, peoples main problem is they don't like how BLM plays...that's an entirely valid point...but butchering CNJ/WHM which IS working well and balanced at the moment, to achieve more dynamic Black Mage play is simply not going to happen...nor should it.

As to the 'BLM should always be superior to WHM in DPS except for maybe undead.' There would be people who find that unfair too. They would then want WHM's 'undead-killing' spells on Black Mage because, 'hey, it's unfair that White Mage has a decent damage dealing spell Black Mage could also enjoy.'

The main problem people are having is that they want this game's battle mechanics (at least spell mechanics) to match FFXI...this is not that game. Therefore, it IS okay and balanced for BLM to not carry all the spells...please point out what endgame content in 1.0 people could'nt use BLM's effectively in. Other jobs in this game have the same issue. I don't see monks whining that they are missing some of the elemental fists....again, we don't know what will happen in ARR or once level cap is raised, but at the moment, giving BLM access to ALL the elemental spells would either make BLM overpowered OR make the spells seem highly gimp...then people would complain that blm has lack-luster spells...

I've stated earlier why the spells are divided amongst the Mage-classes/jobs the way they are. If people are unhappy with blm flexibility, that is fair...but BLM's problems have nothing to do with WHM's graces. Ask for them to fix Black Mage...there are OTHER spells/abilities/mp costs/ cooldowns/etc BLM could use that would balance the roles out.

[Aion]

Conjurer's lore related to elementals. DEAL WITH IT.

[Reika]

Conjurer's lore related to elementals. DEAL WITH IT.

I think they should change it like they want to change THMs

[Shougun]

Again, peoples main problem is they don't like how BLM plays...that's an entirely valid point...but butchering CNJ/WHM which IS working well and balanced at the moment, to achieve more dynamic Black Mage play is simply not going to happen...nor should it.

As to the 'BLM should always be superior to WHM in DPS except for maybe undead.' There would be people who find that unfair too. They would then want WHM's 'undead-killing' spells on Black Mage because, 'hey, it's unfair that White Mage has a decent damage dealing spell Black Mage could also enjoy.'

The main problem people are having is that they want this game's battle mechanics (at least spell mechanics) to match FFXI...this is not that game. Therefore, it IS okay and balanced for BLM to not carry all the spells...please point out what endgame content in 1.0 people could'nt use BLM's effectively in. Other jobs in this game have the same issue. I don't see monks whining that they are missing some of the elemental fists....again, we don't know what will happen in ARR or once level cap is raised, but at the moment, giving BLM access to ALL the elemental spells would either make BLM overpowered OR make the spells seem highly gimp...then people would complain that blm has lack-luster spells...

I've stated earlier why the spells are divided amongst the Mage-classes/jobs the way they are. If people are unhappy with blm flexibility, that is fair...but BLM's problems have nothing to do with WHM's graces. Ask for them to fix Black Mage...there are OTHER spells/abilities/mp costs/ cooldowns/etc BLM could use that would balance the roles out.

I dont really care if WHM keeps their elementals, or loses them (though I know the lore says CNJ has them so in that manor its not a good idea to remove it from CNJ). I dont repeat it every post but if you read all my posts you would know lol


I want to see stone and aero on black mage so we can see stone and aero weak bosses - and you can say you can have stone weak bosses and leave it to WHM, but I never want to see WHM be a "main nuker". That or they can give THM all his healing abilities back, maybe they did..


Of course right now bosses are rather elemental ambivalent as you can cast thunder on everything lol.

[schism]

Yea thm/blm is super boring casting thunder on everything. Hopefully they add more elemental lore.

I dont really care if WHM keeps their elementals, or loses them (though I know the lore says CNJ has them so in that manor its not a good idea to remove it from CNJ). I dont repeat it every post but if you read all my posts you would know lol


I want to see stone and aero on black mage so we can see stone and aero weak bosses - and you can say you can have stone weak bosses and leave it to WHM, but I never want to see WHM be a "main nuker". That or they can give THM all his healing abilities back, maybe they did..


Of course right now bosses are rather elemental ambivalent as you can cast thunder on everything lol.

[Altena]

Lore aside, since that seems to be the biggest defense in removing CNJ/WHM's elemental spells, giving the elements back to BLM would create a better battle mechanic for BLM, introduce less thunder-only-spam, and potentially make BLM a much more fun job to play, while truly not affecting WHM's ability to deal damage.

I might have unleashed a bit of a monster in creating this topic as some WHM's would probably be a bit butthurt to see their beloved elemental spells go, but replacing them with an equal alternative wouldn't be enough?

As for the comments about RDM getting divine nukes - that blows a lot of FF lore out the window in my opinion as they have been fairly exclusive to WHM from the FF's that I have played at least. Not to mention I truly hope to see RDM develop into the true fighting mage that it was originally meant to be in XI (but became broken). That topic aside . . .

This won't really happen, I am 99% sure of it, however it is slightly bothersome to me how BLM will indeed miss a large portion of iconic BLM spells (ancient magic) and WHM will miss their iconic divine nukes. Giving these spells to a completely different class will throw a lot of things out of wack I feel.

In 1.0 there was very little elemental affinity. I mean it was there, but no one really used strengths / weaknesses because spells were split up among classes. BLM's mechanic was basically "if it's strong to thunder - cast fire, and if it's strong to fire - cast thunder, everything else - cast thunder".

Of course 2.0 comes with changes, however I don't think it's smart to speculate how / if the spells will have changed to a large degree. Currently BLM is pretty damn boring for a mage class. Sure you land some high numbers, but the 123 spam gets old, and adding elemental affinity in there I think would make it *slightly* more interesting.

So if everyone were to ignore the lore for just one moment, do you not agree that it would improve the battle mechanic of BLM to give them the 6 elements, and reintroduce elemental affinity that actually means something? Is giving WHM's equivalent spells to their current skillset, with different names and animations not enough?

This is a genuine question, and the reason I made the thread in the first place really. I mean something like this in the lore can easily be adjusted. Our whole continent practically blew up, what is to say that Conjurers didn't turn to higher powers (divine).

Also on a side note, I thought it was amusing that one of the rewards for the THM guild in 1.0 was a wind brand.. Obviously the adjustments made in early 1.0 (can't remember which patch) ignored the THM lore..

[Shougun]

THM: http://ffxiv.zam.com/en/abilitylist.html?class=22&page=1
CNJ: http://ffxiv.zam.com/en/abilitylist....ip=1&order_by=


how crap down memory lane lol (tbh I miss all the options and slotting)