Removing elemental nukes from WHM

[Radacci]

Altena isn't arguing for removing WHM/CNJ's ability to Nuke, merely transferring Stone/Aero/Water elements to Black Mage and Banish/Whatever becoming their new nukes. If they made mobs actually follow an Elemental Wheel, WHM/CNJ could potentially out damage BLM/THM when it came to mobs like Undead/Dark based mobs.

Also she's trying to say Spells as a whole need to fixed, not just WHM/CNJs but BLM/THMs as well.





It's a Mage problem period.

Wouldn't make much sense for CNJ to use holy spells...now if WHM was seperate class, then that'd be another thing.
As lv cap goes up, WHM might learn more holy/astral type spells; dealing with undead/umbral mobs.

[DardGhalawad]

CNJ is a class, wich means, it's the base pillar of the job.
The job is to be considered a "specialist", then WHM should be able to use Light/Holy spells.

[NoloeTazier]

Wouldn't make much sense for CNJ to use holy spells...now if WHM was seperate class, then that'd be another thing.
As lv cap goes up, WHM might learn more holy/astral type spells; dealing with undead/umbral mobs.

Conjurer Lore was already butchered when Thaum was given Fire/Thunder/Blizzard lines. I'll be honest I tend to ignore Conjurer/Thaumaturge and just roll with White Mage/Black Mage lore. Kan-E-Senna gives us our White Mage powers, one being Holy, so clearly WHM could obtain more Holy/Astral-type Spells, which is perfectly fine.

I'm fine with things as they are, the thing I'm not fine with are the uselessness that comes with our damaging spells, losing power so they can have secondary enfeeble/debuffs just annoys me and feels so wrong. What I am for is giving the Elemental Wheel an actual weight, WHM/BLM don't always need a Super Effective spell to hit every mob but atleast having 1 neutral line gives them the ability to go into any content. The lines should also be comparable in MP and base Power, with this you can give Abilities, Gear, and the Elements more accountability. And I think it'd make everyone feel better and give back a "FF" feeling.

off topic but yeah, wanted to voice a concern

[Radacci]

Conjurer Lore was already butchered when Thaum was given Fire/Thunder/Blizzard lines. I'll be honest I tend to ignore Conjurer/Thaumaturge and just roll with White Mage/Black Mage lore. Kan-E-Senna gives us our White Mage powers, one being Holy, so clearly WHM could obtain more Holy/Astral-type Spells, which is perfectly fine.

I'm fine with things as they are, the thing I'm not fine with are the uselessness that comes with our damaging spells, losing power so they can have secondary enfeeble/debuffs just annoys me and feels so wrong. What I am for is giving the Elemental Wheel an actual weight, WHM/BLM don't always need a Super Effective spell to hit every mob but atleast having 1 neutral line gives them the ability to go into any content. The lines should also be comparable in MP and base Power, with this you can give Abilities, Gear, and the Elements more accountability. And I think it'd make everyone feel better and give back a "FF" feeling.

off topic but yeah, wanted to voice a concern

well it's difficult to say how end game will work. if it's like 1.0, mages more easily get spell damage, than melees getting physical damage. So even if CNJ spells have rather low potency, they might end up doing more damage than melee classes end-game.
if their power and potency was high from the beginning, they'd be to OP later on.
we'll see how it goes at higher levels ^^

[Felis]

I'll be honest I tend to ignore Conjurer/Thaumaturge and just roll with White Mage/Black Mage lore. Kan-E-Senna gives us our White Mage powers, one being Holy, so clearly WHM could obtain more Holy/Astral-type Spells, which is perfectly fine.

Hmm, it wasn't Kan-E Senna. It was an elementar. The elementar tested the player during the quests whether the children of the sixth astral era are worthy enough to live or the other elementars should bring their rage over the world like they did during the sixth umbral era (the big flood).

In the german version the conjurer is a druid. The druids live with the elementars and nature. The nature is not holy only.

[Shougun]

I find this most troubling because BLM is a DD he cant just run around and cure if his spells are elemental reisted like the WHM. Which means in boss fights and such elemental resistances need to mean nothing else the BLM becomes useless (and as we've seen this is partially true as BLM just lays out thunder, thunder, thunder, thunder what type of boss is it? dont care thunder thunder thunder thunder).


I'd love to see the BLM have the wheel just so we can not totally destroy a class based on elements or totally destroy the elemental wheel on EG content, as WHM can heal and DD well (if the monster is elementally weak to stone but people think the BLM should be stuck to the three elements and getting nothing else to do if those dont cut it - I'm not getting that).


Also OP, and pretty much -everyone- else that suggested WHM lose their elemental skills made sure to give WHM non-elemental skills that continued their DD ability. However there are some who think that BLM and WHM can share and I think thats legitimate as well - there is no reason why an element cant be considered for DD and protection I mean even on the WHM itself you have stone the spell and stoneskin the defense.

Also as a matter of FF lore BLM has had the whole wheel before, WHM has had parts of the wheel, and sometimes both could learn both - and in FFXIV itself I dont remember any part of the game saying "stone is only for WHM because its a non destructive destructive magic (wtf? lol)"

[Mychael]

I'd love to see the BLM have the wheel just so we can not totally destroy a class based on elements or totally destroy the elemental wheel on EG content, as WHM can heal and DD well (if the monster is elementally weak to stone but people think the BLM should be stuck to the three elements and getting nothing else to do if those dont cut it - I'm not getting that).


Also OP, and pretty much -everyone- else that suggested WHM lose their elemental skills made sure to give WHM non-elemental skills that continued their DD ability. However there are some who think that BLM and WHM can share and I think thats legitimate as well - there is no reason why an element cant be considered for DD and protection I mean even on the WHM itself you have stone the spell and stoneskin the defense.

I think everyone who has argued to remove elemental nukes from CNJ has also been specifically saying to fix THM/BLM's spells to make them useful in any situation.

[Shougun]

I think everyone who has argued to remove elemental nukes from CNJ has also been specifically saying to fix THM/BLM's spells to make them useful in any situation.

Well yeah I want the BLM to have spells useful in any situation by ---following--- the elemental wheel. Now that we have like 90 slots we can have many more spells so SE can stop condensing the BLM into "aoe fire" "single target lightning" "debuff ice".



Because I dont want to be casting thunder for the rest of my BLM lifetime.

Unlike the WHM, BLM is only DD - so we shouldnt be talking like WHM needs to be on par with BLM. BLM needs to swamp WHM in DD- but everyone will cry if the BLM says "i'm going support" because WHM swamps BLM in support (which is already true lol). The BLM swamps WHM in a small average, and most obvious on thunder weak monsters but WHM can and will out damage a BLM on stone weak monsters lol.

[Alhanelem]

I feel as though WHM having these spells also remove the chance of ever seeing other light based nukes other then holy.

Your feeling is flawed, as it most likely has zero bearing on what other spells WHM will learn.

WHM has the spells is has for two main reasons:
1)Increased flexibility so as to not be helpless in solo play
2)Ability to defend oneself to some extent in PvP

Removing these spells would be detremental. I don't really give a rats behind if any WHM in any other game learned the spells or not, or what spells WHM "usually" learns. Let's just squelch developer creativity to match one player's vision!

[Reika]

Your feeling is flawed, as it most likely has zero bearing on what other spells WHM will learn.

WHM has the spells is has for two main reasons:
1)Increased flexibility so as to not be helpless in solo play
2)Ability to defend oneself to some extent in PvP

Removing these spells would be detremental. I don't really give a rats behind if any WHM in any other game learned the spells or not, or what spells WHM "usually" learns. Let's just squelch developer creativity to match one player's vision!

I think in the past wanting the game to be modeled after other FF titles game kinda stifled a lot of possible creativity. "New doesn't always equal good" as they said.