Removing elemental nukes from WHM

[Altena]

The current skillsets are wack. THMs old skillset went with the lore behind it before they decided to make it the black mage of the game. The current skillset does not.

Just like cnj's old skill set went with it before they hazardously decided to make it the white mage of the game.

Screw lore.

When I played THM and CNJ in the early days before the changes (only low levels), I thought it was garbage. I am glad they changed to a more distinct role and not 2 weird hybrid magey jobs.

[whoopeeragon]

^ Thank you, you managed to put into three paragraphs what I long-windedly spouted out through my bs-ing skills. -grateful that others are more succinct than me-

[Klive]

This thread feels like this to me:

"OMG! SE did something different! I DON'T KNOW HOW TO DEAL WITH THAT! Change it back!!!"

/presspanicbutton

Not saying that everyone is acting like that, but sure is how I feel when I read these posts.

[Wilksha]

For those asking for the "elemental wheel" what one of the 3 wheels do you want BLM to have? Yes there is 3. In the THM guild The books on the desk can be targeted in read, in 1.0, and it gave a lot of details on elemental strengths. Fire melts Ice, Ice blocks Wind, Wind puts out Fire. Earth grounds Lightning, Lightning shocks Water, Water best Earth(forget how). And finally Light and dark best each other. This isn't FFXI with one wheel, keep the games separate, they are not equivalent but much beyond the name "Final Fantasy."
The actually Job WHM has only been in a few FF games, FF1(I believe it was 1, could be 2), FF3, FF4, FF5, FF9, and FF11. In FF1 WHM got Areo at least, it's been awhile since I've played 1 or 2. FF3 is where they actually added "Class change" and as you progressed you got more and more class you can change to, FF5 did this as well. FF4's party setup was story based and there was only 2 real WHM, Rosa and Palom. FF9 had 2 WHMs and if I remeber correctly, each had their own special ability besides just healing. THe first was your summoner. in FFXI WHM was Healer and if they weren't in a party as mentioned before could get a good club and does some decennt damage. The rest of the FFs has all characters able to get every ability, excluding FF13. And one thing that every game that has a WHM has in common is that the game is/was centralized around party play. FFXIV for the most part didn't centralize around party play. Nearly everything could be soloed until later quests with NMs or Dungeons. ARR seems to centralize around solo play with quests and leves to level up. With party play involving dungeons and the new FATE system. The new NM are hard to tell if they were part of the FATE system or not, but I believe I read they were part of the FATE system.
As these are my opinions I'm just saying my point of view on this matter. But as far as I see from 1.0 at end time giving WHM 3 elements and BLM 3 elements doesn't really do much to change how the classes them selves were portrayed in the past. Example is that I do not recall a FF other then 11 that gave Black Magic anything beyond Lightning Ice or Fire. In most of them if you wanted a Water ability you had to summon Leviathan or some other water based one, oh have Blue Magic use Aqua Breath or the likes.
Only Problem I have ATM with ARR is the broken lore of CNJ and THM. IF they fix the lore to fit what it currently is, Everything will be just fine and dandy. I think RDM should be the only class that can use all elements but significantly less effective then the natural class it stems from. My mere opinion.

[Molic]

Think it will all be leveled out eventually and each job will be its own and what not.... only thing i fear is how restrictive the i guess armor system or how we gain said spells/abilities/weapon skills is combined with how little room we have on the action bar which at higher lvls might become full. dunno they might have that figured out to though, cant really see the end game quite yet o;

[Asael]

Spell listings for the FF series:

FF I

White Magic
Cure
Harm
Fog
Ruse
Lamp
Mute
Alit
Invisible
Cure 2
Harm 2
Afire
Heal
Pure
Fear
Aice
Amute
Cure 3
Life
Harm 3
Heal 2
Soft
Exit
Fog 2
Invisible 2
Cure 4
Harm 4
Arub
Heal 3
Fade
Wall
Xfer
Life 2

Black Magic
Fire
Sleep
Lock
Lightning
Ice
Dark
Temper
Slow
Fire 2
Hold
Lightning 2
Lock 2
Sleep 2
Fast
Confuse
Ice 2
Fire 3
Bane
Warp
Slow 2
Lightning 3
Rub
Quake
Stun
Ice 3
Break
Saber
Blind
Stop
Zap!
XXXX
Nuke

FF II

White Magic
Cure
Blink
Safe
Shell
Fear
Peep
Heal
Mute
Life
Anti
Exit
Dispel
Mini
Fog
Slow
Barrier
Wall
Change
Beserk
Haste
Charm
Holy

Black Magic
Fire
Ice
Bolt
Warp
Curse
Stone
Stop
Toad
Break
Aura
Aero
Blind
Sleep
Drain
Aspil
Death
Flare
Ultima

FF III (2006 version as I could not find anything on the original 1990 release)

White Magic
Cure
Cura
Curaga
Curaja
Poisona
Sight
Aero
Aeroga
Mini
Toad
Teleport
Blindna
Libra
Confuse
Silence
Raise
Arise
Protect
Stona
Haste
Esuna
Reflect
Tornado
Arise
Holy

Black Magic
Fire
Fira
Firaga
Blizzard
Blizzara
Blizzaga
Thunder
Thundara
Thundaga
Sleep
Blind
Poison
Break
Shade
Raze
Erase
Bio
Warp
Quake
Breakga
Drain
Flare
Death
Meteor

FF IV

White Magic
Cure 1
Cure 2
Cure 3
Cure 4
Esuna
Sight
Life
Mini
Exit
Float
Life 2
Blink
Charm
Shell
Scan
Wall
Hold
Berserk
Holy
Mute
Protect
Slow
Dispel
Haste

Black Magic
Fire 1
Fire 2
Fire 3
Flare
Ice 1
Ice 2
Ice 3
Death
Bolt 1
Bolt 2
Bolt 3
Wind
Venom
Stone
Bio
Quake
Meteo (Meteor)
Psych
Drain
Sleep
Toad
Piggy
Warp

FF V

White Magic
Cure 1
Libra
Pure
Quiet
Safe
Mini
Cure 2
Raise
Charm
Blink
Shell
Esuna
Cure 3
Wall
Berserk
Arise
Holy
Dispel

Black Magic
Fire
Ice
Bolt
Poison
Sleep
Toad
Fire 2
Ice 2
Bolt 2
Drain
Break
Bio
Fire 3
Ice 3
Bolt 3
Flare
Death
Aspil

Time Magic
Speed
Slow
Regen
Mute
Fast
Float
Demi
Stop
Exit
Comet
Slow 2
Return
Quarter
Fast 2
Old
Meteo
Quick
Xzone

Blue Magic
Condemn
Roulette
AquaBreath
L5 Doom
L4 Gravity
L2 Old
L3 Flare
Frog Song
Melody
Flash
Time Slip
Moon Flute
Death Claw
Aero
Aero 2
Aero 3
Emission
Goblin Punch
Dark Shock
Guard Off
Fusion
Mind Blast
Blood Suck
Magic Hammer
Big Guard
Exploder
????
Blow Fish
White Wind
Missile

FF VI (I listed the spells from this game but keep in mind FFVI did not categorize spells, it treated any form of magic as just that, "Magic.")

Cure 1
Cure 2
Cure 3
Antidote
Life
Life 2
Life 3
Regen
Remedy
Fire
Fire 2
Fire 3
Ice
Ice 2
Ice 3
Bolt
Bolt 2
Bolt 3
Poison
Drain
Bio
Break
Doom
Pearl
Flare
Demi
Quarter
X-Zone
Meteor
Ultima
Quake
W. Wind
Merton
Scan
Slow
Rasp
Mute
Safe
Sleep
Muddle
Haste
Stop
Berserk
Float
Imp
Reflect
Shell
Vanish
Haste 2
Slow 2
Osmose
Warp
Quick
Dispel

FF VII & VIII (I chose not to list the spells for these two games because they had a very unique way of applying the use of magic to the game through their materia and draw system. On top of that, these game did not really have a job system and, like FFVI, did not categorize magic)

FF IX

White Magic
Cure
Cura
Curaga
Life
Scan
Panacea
Stona
Shell
Protect
Silence
Mini
Reflect
Confuse
Berserk
Blind
Float
Dispel
Esuna
Full Life
Haste
Holy
Jewel
Might
Regen

Black Magic
Bio
Blizzard
Blizzara
Blizzaga
Break
Comet
Death
Demi
Doomsday
Drain
Fire
Fira
Firaga
Flare
Meteor
Osmose
Poison
Sleep
Slow
Stop
Thunder
Thundara
Thundaga
Water

FFX (Not really any type of job system here but were basically "inferred" by each character's look and style. Though the game did split its magic into categories via the sphere grid system).

White Magic
Cure
Cura
Curaga
Esuna
Scan
Nulblaze
Nulfrost
Nulshock
Nultide
Life
Full-Life
Haste
Hastega
Slow
Slowga
Shell
Protect
Reflect
Dispel
Regen
Holy
Auto-Life

Black Magic
Fire
Fira
Firaga
Thunder
Thundara
Thundaga
Water
Watera
Waterga
Blizzard
Blizzara
Blizzaga
Bio
Demi
Death
Drain
Osmose
Flare
Ultima

FF X-2

White Magic
Cure
Cura
Curaga
Regen
Esuna
Dispel
Life
Full-Life
Shell
Protect
Reflect
Full-Cure

Black Magic
Fire
Blizzard
Thunder
Water
Fira
Blizzara
Thundara
Watera
Firaga
Blizzaga
Thundaga
Waterga

Arcana
Drain
Demi
Confuse
Break
Bio
Doom
Death
Black Sky

Garment Grids
Auto-Life
Blind
Flare
Haste
Hastega
Holy
Osmose
Silence
Sleep
Ultima

FF XI

lol not on your life...

FF XII

White Magic
Cure
Cura
Curaga
Curaja
Renew
Raise
Arise
Esuna
Esunaga
Blindna
Vox
Poisona
Stona
Cleanse
Dispel
Dispelga
Regen
Holy

Black Magic
Fire
Thunder
Blizzard
Water
Aero
Fira
Fira
Thundara
Blizzara
Bio
Aeroga
Firaga
Thundaga
Blizzaga
Shock
Sourge
Flare
Ardor
Scathe

Time Magic
Haste
Hastega
Slow
Slowga
Immobilize
Disable
Stop
Reflect
Reflectga
Float
Break
Countdown
Balance
Bleed
Warp

Green Magic
Protect
Protectga
Shell
Shellga
Bravery
Faith
Blind
Blindga
Silence
Silencega
Sleep
Slepga
Poison
Toxify
Oil

Arcane Magic
Dark
Darkra
Darkga
Gravity
Graviga
Reverse
Berserk
Confuse
Decoy
Death
Vanish
Vanishga
Bubble
Drain
Syphon

FFXIII (Never truly classified its spells but they were only available under certain paradigms (FFXIII's version of s job/support job system). For this game I'm only going to list what were actually used as spells under each paradigm.)

Commando
Ruin
Ruinga

Ravager
Fire
Fira
Firaga
Blizzard
Blizzara
Blizzaga
Thunder
Thundara
Thundaga
Water
Watera
Waterga
Aero
Aerora
Aeroga

Synergist
Barfire
Barfrost
Barthunder
Barwater
Bravery
Bravera
Enfire
Enfrost
Enthunder
Enwater
Faith
Faithra
Haste
Protect
Protectra
Shell
Shellra
Veil

Saboteur
Curse
Cursega
Daze
Dazega
Deprotect
Deprotega
Deshell
Deshellga
Dispel
Fog
Fogga
Imperil
Imperilga
Jinx
Pain
Painga
Poison
Poisonga
Slow
Slowga

Medic
Cure
Cura
Curasa
Curaja
Esuna
Raise

Sources:

My own games
www.finalfantasy.wikia.com/
http://www.uffsite.net/

Also bear in mind that the names of certain spells change in their reiterations (ie Fire 3 becomes Firaga, Bolt 3 becomes Thundaga, etc.) I hope this helps and if I missed anything let me know and I'll add it in.

On a quick side note though, I think this topic has been derailed for the last few pages. The purpose was to simply discuss various ideas that could be used to improve or innovate the two jobs systems. I think people are focusing way too much on the elaboration of a disagreement or set of disagreements, and thus has become some sort of battleground for two differing view points. Just sayin.

Anyways, happy forum going.

[Altena]

On a quick side note though, I think this topic has been derailed for the last few pages. The purpose was to simply discuss various ideas that could be used to improve or innovate the two jobs systems. I think people are focusing way too much on the elaboration of a disagreement or set of disagreements, and thus has become some sort of battleground for two differing view points. Just sayin.

Anyways, happy forum going.

Thank you for pulling things back to the point of this thread and stating things I have failed to find the words to say.

[Asael]

Thank you for pulling things back to the point of this thread and stating things I have failed to find the words to say.

Anytime ^^

[Bowen]

Maybe I'm wrong, but doesn't Aero and Stone have side effects that are very beneficial to WHM? Like, I remember one has a dispel effect, while the other has a DoT. They definitely do have a purpose if this is the case. That, and I think that WHM should have some nukes, so that they can DD when they don't need to heal.

Then again, I've never really used WHM (I only got to level BLM/THM to max before the end came. ): ) so maybe I am stupid and should leave.

[junebug341]

they should make whm be able to implode like ninja back in ffxi instead of trying to HOLY FTW!