When is PLD Getting Fixed So It Can Be a VIABLE Tank?

[AceofRains]

PLD fixes:
-Add parrys
-Do not increase Block rate more than nessesary
-Add parrys
-Add parrys
-Increase MP recovery
-A strong HP restore, I'm talking really strong and pretty much automatic. Invincibility is nice but theres gotta be more.

(okay maybe thats a bit much but you catch my drift right)?

Most party setups include 2-3 whm for difficult content. If paladin would be fixed THE RIGHT WAY meaning a high enmity tank/healer, you would eleminate one white mage from the equation(the tank healer), making room for more DD.

[Soulfire]

If I could pick one thing to change for paladin it wouldn't be paladin directly. It would be conjurer's Sacred Prism. Instead of that wild description I'd like it to simply change all single-target recovery and enhancing spells to AoE.

[AceofRains]

If I could pick one thing to change for paladin it wouldn't be paladin directly. It would be conjurer's Sacred Prism. Instead of that wild description I'd like it to simply change all single-target recovery and enhancing spells to AoE.

Isn't that essentialy what it does? Plus they cant make ALL enhancing spells apply to it, I mean for the most part the do, but say a new enhancing spell comes out and they DONT want it usable under sacred prism, thus they have to specify what you can use. Idk I think?

[Soulfire]

Isn't that essentialy what it does? Plus they cant make ALL enhancing spells apply to it, I mean for the most part the do, but say a new enhancing spell comes out and they DONT want it usable under sacred prism, thus they have to specify what you can use. Idk I think?

I was kinda throwing that out there as it's been playing in my head for a while now. (And the change to Sacred Prism's description struck me as ridiculous.) I like the ideas you guys posted as well, though. I was picking something semi-conservative with a bit of strategic potential, but I'd love for more.

[Firon]

Complicated issue involving level correction (which has a slew of other problems). This is on top of tank design on WAR having an easier time against it between ease of AoE tanking and abilities available to them. PLD on the other hand is stuck with a reactionary ability whenever Flash is on cooldown, and everything else being single-target. I know exactly what the devs went for with this, but also know they failed to realize that when you have groups of mobs involved in anything, combined with speed runs and so on, the guy that holds hate and does more damage is gonna win.

This is why whenever you have tanks, parity is VERY important because otherwise you get exactly what has been happening, in people using one and ignoring the other (this is actually true for any role, because DPS and healers can also suffer from this problem). Tanks can have styles and flavors, but hate and DPS has to be about even or within a reasonable range...well, that is provided you want an actual roster of tanks in-game rather than niche gameplay where one is useful for one thing and the other is useful elsewhere.

Note: I'll retract the affectionate adjective I used on the nerf-callers, admittedly because it was aimed at the latter group I mentioned (the guys that wanted WAR tanking nerfed to notable inferiority and/or outright removal of WAR tanking).

I usually agree with a lot of what you say but SC was too OP killing 8 mobs at once is retarded for any class. Blm could probably do that if they are lucky.

[Haibel]

I gave PLD a second chance after the initial disappointment after the patch and here's how it went:


------------------------------- Fixes I'd like to see----------------------------

1- Increase block rate and or make it possible to block magic attacks.

2- Change Outmaneuver then turn it into a stance. this can solve the first issue too since it would address the low block rate, and help with MP recovery.

I other words just give us Guard back. The block rate of guard was insane and before they nerfed it between alpha and beta had the dmg mitagation of parry. give it a 30 duration and a 60 second cool down and Problem sloved. PLD would have to give up something, I could live without divin veil until a cap increase in favor for a real guarding skill.

Edit: And fix War Drum. Seriously, for being condistional and having a long CD it really
doesn't give much hate.

[Dzian]

I gave PLD a second chance after the initial disappointment after the patch and here's how it went:

Tanking over all is better but I don't want PLD to be another tank, I want it to be the go-to tank and its not quite there yet.

My issues:

1- Block rate is still laughable, unlike warrior's parry rate which happens often thanks to "nerfed" Rampage, it seems like my PLD only realizes that he has a shield when I use an ability.

2- Outmaneuver is utterly and completely useless on its own, the block rate increase is unnoticeable, the MP recovery is such a small number and using it without Divine Veil is pointless. Outmaneuver needs to be fixed

3- Cover's main use currently is just to restore MP, and to do that you NEED to have the AF body on, since without it, Cover is an incase-shit/last ditch very situational ability to save someone if you lose hate.

------------------------------- Fixes I'd like to see----------------------------

1- Increase block rate and or make it possible to block magic attacks.

2- Change Outmaneuver then turn it into a stance. this can solve the first issue too since it would address the low block rate, and help with MP recovery.

3- Add the MP recovery effect to Cover and just make the AF increase the amount or increase its range.


About Cover: this ability would kick so much ass if we had alliances (2 parties +) and grand battles where you need 2 tanks rotating hate, you'll be able to cover each other to preserve and regenerate MP, but in our current system its usability is severely limited.

the only thing missing from all of that is.......

And fix War Drum. Seriously, for being condistional and having a long CD it really
doesn't give much hate.

pretty much spot on between both of them

[Duelle]

I usually agree with a lot of what you say but SC was too OP killing 8 mobs at once is retarded for any class. Blm could probably do that if they are lucky.

I find it hard to justify nerfs once the class is out the gate. Partly because I know the discrepancy was intentional since the beginning, not to mention that once its in the hands of the players unless the class itself is borking the very core of balance (like NIN tanks did in FFXI) it's obviously going to be involved with not fixing or changing the other classes much. Then you end up with WAR nerfs instead of PLD buffs.

What really annoys me about this sort of thing is that we have people who already think PLD is fixed and perfect, whereas as I mentioned earlier in this thread, PLD has taken a step in the right direction but it is far from fixed. You still have DPS discrepancy (don't know how to fix this outside of redesigning GLA traits to have them get at least one Enhanced Physical Attack Power trait or perhaps increasing base damage of all swords), lack of more AoE (which would be fixed by a direct buff+lowered cooldown to War Drum and bringing back Circle Slash) and need for slightly better enmity generation (which would most likely be fixed if you increased DPS and AoE capabilities).

[Firon]

I find it hard to justify nerfs once the class is out the gate. Partly because I know the discrepancy was intentional since the beginning, not to mention that once its in the hands of the players unless the class itself is borking the very core of balance (like NIN tanks did in FFXI) it's obviously going to be involved with not fixing or changing the other classes much. Then you end up with WAR nerfs instead of PLD buffs.

What really annoys me about this sort of thing is that we have people who already think PLD is fixed and perfect, whereas as I mentioned earlier in this thread, PLD has taken a step in the right direction but it is far from fixed. You still have DPS discrepancy (don't know how to fix this outside of redesigning GLA traits to have them get at least one Enhanced Physical Attack Power trait or perhaps increasing base damage of all swords), lack of more AoE (which would be fixed by a direct buff+lowered cooldown to War Drum and bringing back Circle Slash) and need for slightly better enmity generation (which would most likely be fixed if you increased DPS and AoE capabilities).

How can you justify a Job which is not meant to solo for one. Killing 8 Lvl. 51-54 mobs by Him/Herself? Also they didn't nerfed a nerf is taking away from a char not giving it nothing else. They reduced the SC dmg but Raised its single target DPS.

[Duelle]

How can you justify a Job which is not meant to solo for one. Killing 8 Lvl. 51-54 mobs by Him/Herself? Also they didn't nerfed a nerf is taking away from a char not giving it nothing else. They reduced the SC dmg but Raised its single target DPS.

Well, I admit that what I was hoping for, if anything, was for a hard line between DPS and tank WAR. But more along the lines of you entering an encounter geared to tank and that's all you were there for; I believe I even undug the stance ideas I had for MRD several months ago when it came up. Maybe I've misunderstood the changes, but that's not what was given to us by the devs.