#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[Iedarus]

I do remember reading of a "healer only" clear of something or other and tanks saying to the effect of "See? There's no issue here."

Actually for real. I always wanted to ask Avycatte what her clear time was on her x4 healer runs, cause I guarantee the 3 dps 1 tank comp clears WAY faster than 4 healer comp.

Edit: Ugh, typo.

[Rithy255]

Actually for real. I always wanted to ask Avycatte what her clear time was on her no healer runs, cause I guarantee the 3 dps 1 tank comp clears WAY faster than 4 healer comp.

a clear time on 3 dps and 1 healer would be pretty close to a 1 tank and 3 dps.

4 tanks would be slower then standard 1/1/2 dungeon comps.

[MisterNublet]

a clear time on 3 dps and 1 healer would be pretty close to a 1 tank and 3 dps.

4 tanks would be slower then standard 1/1/2 dungeon comps.

1 tank 3 dps clears much faster than 1 healer 3 dps. It isn't even close.

Tank can handle larger packs of mobs. DPS cannot without being healed considerably, thus losing out on dps from the healer.

[Azurarok]

Food for thought, though: What could the dynamics of a tank-less comp even look like? Would there even be any way to salvage that into something fun? Dropping a healer, of all roles, does make sense, as it's essentially removing one's safety margin (albeit less so with PLD-stacking). But you'd have to have far less passive tank mit (and scale TBs around that) and greater power in healer mit and DPS personals, etc., for it to offer enough control between rezzes to not just feel like a cluster****, I'd imagine.

I think the biggest point that makes it difficult to cut out tanks is the lack of aggro management tools, followed by just being able to survive tankbusters with how much of a gap there is in defense/hp stats between tanks and the other roles these days, though maybe a team of SCHs can still manage that part.

[Rithy255]

1 tank 3 dps clears much faster than 1 healer 3 dps. It isn't even close.

Tank can handle larger packs of mobs. DPS cannot without being healed considerably, thus losing out on dps from the healer.

This is just incorrect, I've ran dungeons with 3 dps and one healer and been able to pull both mob packs, while the healer still fits in a lot of dps, It's really not that difficult lol, tanks are not needed in dungeons for a quick run.

[MisterNublet]

This is just incorrect, I've ran dungeons with 3 dps and one healer and been able to pull both mob packs, while the healer still fits in a lot of dps, It's really not that difficult lol, tanks are not needed in dungeons for a quick run.

You're not fooling anyone.

1 Tank and 3 DPS is meta for speed running dungeons due to the tank's ability to hold enmity, number of mitigations, and broken self and group sustain (for dungeons). Not even mentioning the biggest thing for speed running: Tanks also do thousands of more DPS than the healer role.

Alexandria Team Speed Runs

Tender Valley Team Speed Runs

The Strayborough Deadwalk Team Speed Runs

Yuweyawata Field Station Team Speed Runs

Crazy how in each list, the top 50 all have tanks. Not a single 1 Healer 3 DPS Team. Lots of 1 Tank 3 Dps teams though.

[Aravell]

Paladin is also a straight up superior healer thanks to Clemency & Divine Veil, especially when you have 4 of them.
Removing Clemency or not, sacrificing the job identity for stopping the 4 paladin clear is a debate I leave to you, it's a healer GCD after all.

I think Clemency itself is fine, the 4 PLD clear is more a problem with the incoming damage than PLD itself. If you can clear by spamming Clemency, then that means you can also just spam Cure II at those points, that's far too little damage in what's supposed to be a difficult fight.

The largest problem is still that the dev team views more healing as just higher damage, so we end up with a ton of mitigation checks but very few actual heal checks. If we can get more actual heal checks, that would also solve groups completely removing the healer role because then you'd actually need at least one healer to clear.

[Rithy255]

You're not fooling anyone.

1 Tank and 3 DPS is meta for speed running dungeons due to the tank's ability to hold enmity, number of mitigations, and broken self and group sustain (for dungeons). Not even mentioning the biggest thing for speed running: Tanks also do thousands of more DPS than the healer role.

Alexandria Team Speed Runs

Tender Valley Team Speed Runs

The Strayborough Deadwalk Team Speed Runs

Yuweyawata Field Station Team Speed Runs

Crazy how in each list, the top 50 all have tanks. Not a single 1 Healer 3 DPS Team. Lots of 1 Tank 3 Dps teams though.

So who am I exactly trying to fool? I've literally done 3 dps and 1 healer runs before, it didn't take long at all, if healers had better damage then tanks they'd likely run that for speed runs. also I didn't say it was meta to run 1 healer and 3 dps for speed groups, It wouldn't be as fast as 3 dps and 1 tank, because tank does more damage, 3 dps and healer of course will be less common because of that, with the added fact that it's easier to likely just solo tank.

Dungeon content shouldn't really be took seriously and we shouldn't be using dungeons to prove that healer is flawed, it's easy to tell that healer's need big changes but using dungeons as a reason is baffling to me, that content isn't engaging or difficult for any role you can pretty much run anything with in reason.

[Supersnow845]

Why should content be excluded from balance and design discussions because it’s easy

I have raided ultimates in the past, I can still enjoy a dungeon if you give me a well designed job like PCT.

Saying dungeon design and balance doesn’t matter works both ways, if it’s totally fine for the healer to just suck it up and deal with being an inferior role why can’t tanks suck it up and not have broken AOE self healing. If you ask for the latter though tank mains will tell you to stop taking away their fun despite dungeon design and balance not mattering when it comes to healer fun

[Rithy255]

Why should content be excluded from balance and design discussions because it’s easy

I have raided ultimates in the past, I can still enjoy a dungeon if you give me a well designed job like PCT.

Saying dungeon design and balance doesn’t matter works both ways, if it’s totally fine for the healer to just suck it up and deal with being an inferior role why can’t tanks suck it up and not have broken AOE self healing. If you ask for the latter though tank mains will tell you to stop taking away their fun despite dungeon design and balance not mattering when it comes to healer fun

You clearly miss the point, it's easy to clear fast on solo healers and tanks, the reason why you pick tank is because of more damage lol. I don't get why this is hard to understand that dungeons in general are just boring and easy and again you can clear on most comps.

It sure does matter both ways! I find it annoying that healers can make me using defensives feel invalid in bosses because they spam mit/shields/healing on me, but it is what it is the content is designed for everyone its not really designed for people who want a challenge, news flash tank is also pretty boring in dungeons.

If you want to have a fun healing time on healer go play with 3 dps and 1 healer! problem solved it won't even take long.

If you nerfed tanks to the point where healers actually had to heal a lot in dungeons then they'd be melee dps lol