#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[TheDustyOne]

Ah I see you aren't going to look at the things that make them different, so naturally, you don't see the differences. Yeah that checks.

The fillers are even less unique compared to the healers than what Rein has talked about; there's a reason I refer to all of them as Glaroilificosis. The only difference they have is the name and slight potency variations, there's no gameplay difference between spamming Broil and spamming Dosis and refreshing Bio and Eukrasian Dosis.

And Role actions live up to their name, every healer has the exact same ones.

SGE really is just SCH without the Fairy. There is nuance in their differences, but the decision making is 95% similar.

[ASkellington]

Ah I see you aren't going to look at the things that make them different, so naturally, you don't see the differences. Yeah that checks.

Its not that we're ignoring the differences. The differences are not enough doubly so because SGE isn't what was advertised nor promised.

If Kardia was an actual mechanic instead of a set and forget buff to heal the tank, if SGE actually had to heal through doing DPS and had limited healing options where it could heal without doing damage then I will accept it being different from SCH enough to be its own healing class. Until then, its a SCH clone.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

Ah I see you aren't going to look at the things that make them different, so naturally, you don't see the differences. Yeah that checks.

Genuinely asking, what makes their filler different?

1. Dosis - Broil
2. Eukrasia Dosis - Bios
3. Dyskrasia - Art of War

Is it Eukrasia..? Is it because I need to press an extra button to use GCD shield or something? If you mean the 'extra step' of having to press Eukrasia to apply DoT...well I will not presume to know of you. But in my perspective, it just turns 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 into 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 (one extra press of [1] hotkey per half a minute). I will still look at the DoT timer to judge when I should be refreshing my DoT. Same exact number. This isn't just for SGE/SCH btw, as the regen healer are also equally in the rut on this front.

Is it the actual healing GCD spells? On that front, I also don't feel different enough, even until my last high end experience from last tier. Taking the infamous p10s example, my worst run still had me cast a total of 19 GCDs for heals out of 199 GCD casts. Now if I were a SGE in that run, I'd get to press Eukrasia 19 extra times, meaning I'll have 38/219 GCD spent on non-Dosis...? Yaayyy...??? What if this is a smoother encounter or non-high ends? Perish the thought, I will probably not even touching Eukrasia outside to refresh DoT thanks to how abundant their HPS is.

Or is it two target gain to use AoE on SCH while it's three target gain to use AoE on 3 other healers?

What about role action? Depending on how much piety you have, 7000-7800 MP are usually the sweet spot to start using Lucid... there is no difference between healers. Surecast? Same. Swiftcast? Again, same; either save for raise or play it risky by swiftcasting Glaroilficosis? Rescue? Lol.

I genuinely can't think anything else.

TheDustyOne nailed it though. Simply put, it's the decision making, they are too similar to one another.

[Supersnow845]

Ah I see you aren't going to look at the things that make them different, so naturally, you don't see the differences. Yeah that checks.

The problem is the things you are selling as “differences” aren’t MEANINGFULLY different

Is kardia being a buff you can pass around that works off of your damage GCD different to the fairy casting embrace on the lowest HP party member……..yes

Is it meaningfully different in that it induces you to make different decisions………no

And that’s where the problems arise with comparisons of SCH and SGE. Their skills are just different enough to warrant different tooltips but aren’t different enough to actually induce you to make meaningfully different decisions. Like sure panhaima is 5 stacks of shields and only pure heals you for unused stacks while seraph is 2 stacks of a shield and heal but in practice where the SGE uses panhaima the SCH will use seraph which makes the skills not really have a meaningful difference. The only skills that stand out are the unique skills of which SCH is the only one that doesn’t have analogues in SGE’s kit; namely illumination, the sprint part of expedient and deployment

Compare this to say AST and WHM. AST doesn’t have a “rapture” equivalent where it can dump out on demand AOE healing functionally whenever it wants, but in exchange WHM doesn’t really have a collective or an opposition equivalent as WHM isn’t great at sustained regens

Looking for minute differences that don’t meaningfully alter gameplay is rather pointless in the grand scheme of things

[YarnMage48]

There seems to be a miscommunication here. I don't consider Dosis to be "filler". Well, if you're saying that the primary single target damage button for each healer is functionally the same across classes, then yes, they are indeed quite similar. Though I do have to say that I find the "Eukrasion" gimmick to be neat. Yes, in practice, all it really changes is the amount of space needed on my hotbar for GCD skills. But I still think it's neat, nonetheless. Regardless, that's not the point I was making. The point is that if you ignore differences, you will only see similarities.

I've already discussed several differences between SGE and SCH. I've also already discussed some barriers for further differentiation between healer classes.

If you only want to see the similarities, then I can't stop you. No matter what you choose, I will continue enjoying the game.

[Supersnow845]

There seems to be a miscommunication here. I don't consider Dosis to be "filler". Well, if you're saying that the primary single target damage button for each healer is functionally the same across classes, then yes, they are indeed quite similar. Though I do have to say that I find the "Eukrasion" gimmick to be neat. Yes, in practice, all it really changes is the amount of space needed on my hotbar for GCD skills. But I still think it's neat, nonetheless. Regardless, that's not the point I was making. The point is that if you ignore differences, you will only see similarities.

I've already discussed several differences between SGE and SCH. I've also already discussed some barriers for further differentiation between healer classes.

If you only want to see the similarities, then I can't stop you. No matter what you choose, I will continue enjoying the game.

What do you consider dosis to be if you don’t consider it filler. I mean that’s literally what it is in the most literal sense of the word. It’s what you press when you don’t have anything else to press. I don’t get how that can be up for debate

[Shurrikhan]

There seems to be a miscommunication here. I don't consider Dosis to be "filler". Well, if you're saying that the primary single target damage button for each healer is functionally the same across classes, then yes, they are indeed quite similar. Though I do have to say that I find the "Eukrasion" gimmick to be neat. Yes, in practice, all it really changes is the amount of space needed on my hotbar for GCD skills.

To be fair, though, Eukrasian Dosis is no more Dosis than Dia, Afflatus Solace, Glare IV, is Glare, Biolysis is Broil, or Combust is Malefic.

Nor does Eukrasian Dosis even change the number of skills you need on your bar relative to the other 30s-duration DoTs. You're still using another key to then replace an GCD of the functionally identical attack, up to once per 30s (20s, in Afflatus's case; thrice per 120s in G4's case).

The difference is just that you hit the filler attack's button once more per DoT; that's it.

[Azurarok]

There were so many more differences between healers (or all the jobs in general) in the past of course we're focusing on the similarities to be an issue. That's kind of the point of the thread.

[TheDustyOne]

Eukrasia has the potential to be a really, really cool skill, much like Dark Arts used to be. Extra attack spells can mean different Eukrasian spells, different Eukrasian spells mean different effects. While we're at it, maybe we could make a Eukrasian Toxikon that has a 21s DoT, finally allowing it to be damage neutral without being overly spammable.

We could go a step further and offer different Kardia effects from these different attack spells, like giving extra barriers, mitigations, regens, stronger heals, cleanses, etc. Eukrasian Toxikon could apply another barrier, maybe we could have a new gauge to spend on attacks that provide the Kardia target with buffs and shields.

Instead Eukrasia is just our DoT behind an extra button press and turns not-Physick into not-Adloquium. While Kardia is just not-Embrace. Such a massive missed opportunity.

[Supersnow845]

Seraphism also deleted arguably one of current eukrasia’s greatest strengths; in that SGE had a way to perform limitless AOE pure healing with prognosis

Sure prognosis wasn’t strong but the augmentation effect was a noticeable advantage over SCH who’s only GCD AOE healing option is succor (I’ll never call it concitation)