#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[ForsakenRoe]

I'm glad you get along better than I do with SCH, I see people like Supersnow touting it as being insanely powerful but I've never really experienced that first hand, it might just be my failing - SCH never really clicks with me the way WHM does.

It's no longer as ridiculous as it once was, but SCH is still arguably the strongest healer, due to fights in this game mainly being 'mit checks' rather than 'HPS checks'. Back before SHB nerfed it heavily (kinda deserved), a Crit-Deploy Adlo could singlehandedly mitigate through a mechanic, because the crit half (Catalyze) also got Deployed. Unreliable, but when it happened, you took literally zero damage from things, even in Savage. With Recitation guaranteeing access to a Crit on demand, it had to be nerfed to what it is today. Still, however, a guaranteed-Crit-Adlo-Deploy combo is going to be (300p x 180% x [Crit Mult]), and with the 2.50 BIS for this raid putting our CritMult at 1.588x, that gives a total potency for the shield of 857.52p.

By comparison, a SGE cannot guarantee a crit on their Zoe-E.Prog combo, and so they're either going to get a barrier of (100p x 360% x 1.5 (from Zoe)) for 540p, or that amount multiplied by the CritMult, for 857.52p. Yes, the exact same result, but on SGE the Crit is not guaranteed. As such, while SGE 'can' match SCH on this front (as Zoe-E.Prog and Adlo-Deploy both result in a partywide barrier of 540p), SCH is more 'reliable' in how often it can reach the higher potency of a Crit being involved (as in, it can guarantee it). Additionally, SCH has the oft-forgotten Fey Illumination, and SGE has no equivalent option to use. 10% increase to healing output means 10% stronger barriers, and the 5% magic resist can make or break some mit checks (I've died to a missing Feint on a Magic Raidwide before multiple times), so SCH is simply more versatile in that regard, as using FI on a weaker raidwide allows the SCH to save a bigger CD like Expedient for something stronger later, or it allows the SCH to double-up on certain raidwides (eg if they apply a bleed) for extra safety in early prog

So I uh... was not aware of this until now since I was too new to even think about parses and whatnot back then.

They removed the one reason why healers were still worth having over tanks

Yeh, if you had to choose between 'WHM has to cast Cure2' and 'PLD is in Requiescat, and could cast a boosted Clemency instead of a HolySpirit', back then it was 'more efficient' for the party's overall DPS for the PLD to sac a stack of Req and do the healing, rather than make the WHM drop a Glare. Of course, this had to be changed because the tanks were feeling a bit emasculated, getting outdamaged by a floaty twinkly-lights-and-flowers enthusiast

Rez tax is really weird to me. The way I see it, before EW RDM was the easiest caster to play and thus had lower dps, and the utility was there to make up for that. Then EW reworked SMN to be the easiest caster, but they still balanced it like it used to and had it stronger than RDM for the better part of the expac, and rez tax seemed more like an their excuse for their poor balancing.

The current order of BLM > PCT > RDM > SMN in full uptime seems right to me, though RDM probably should be closer to BLM/PCT going by how PCT and BLM are now (SMN kinda belongs down there).

A friend of mine had a genius idea to solve RDM's issues: AST Sects.

You choose at the start of a fight, if you're Caster RDM or 'Fake Melee RDM' (so, if you're in a party that has 1 Melee, 1 Ranged, 1 PCT (of course) and you're the RDM, you'd play Fake Melee RDM) via a stance toggle. All the button does, is change every 'Ver-' into 'En-', making every builder GCD like VerStone, VerFire, etc, into EnStone, EnFire, which imbue the rapier with elemental energy for a strike, rather than projecting it as a spell. Cast times of Jolt/EnFire/EnStone (the procs) would be instant, but EnAero and EnThunder would remain identical to CasterMode with a long cast time, to keep the same gameplay between styles (via Dualcasting). Not sure if the burst combo should be converted to EnHoly/EnFlare/EnScorch, that's probably fine to leave as is, and Reprise would act as the 'trash ranged GCD you avoid as much as possible', akin to Throwing Dagger, Writhing Snap, Harpe, etc

Lastly, there would be no potency differences between Caster and Melee mode. Every action would be the same potency between the two. Instead, the Melee stance would enable Autoattacks to use the same formula as Melee jobs use, albeit with Intelligence as the primary stat used for the calculations rather than Strength. The additional damage of Autoattacks, would propel RDM up the charts to roughly sit with the rest of the melee (theoretically). I expect the forbidden site would implement something to check if you're a Melee stance RDM or a Caster stance RDM, and have separate categories for each, else trying to get a top run for RDM would force you to be Melee mode

edit: looking at numbers, the autoattacks would need to be roughly 50% as potent as an actual Melee, as looking at a run or two shows that autoattacks make up about 8-10% of a Melee's output, and RDM is only behind the Melee pack by about 4-5% (fight dependent). Stick a 'x 0.3' to 'x 0.5' on the end of the formula and adjust for balance as needed, easily solved

The downside of this idea is that it encroaches on Mystic Knight as a Job Identity, but DRK already did that with Blood Weapon back in HW so eh (plus Enfire/Enstone etc were RDM actions in FF11)

[Maltothoris]

The other thing that about aldo deploy is that it's is enhanced more so by single target buffs. Zoe could onyl be buffed by things like mantra and nature's minne. Recitation can get buffed by protraction, karsis if you have a sge, thrill of battle and so much other stuff.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

A bit tangential on FI talks: some may add that SGE can use their Physis II to buff their follow up shield. But the ‘problem’ with this is the fact that Physis II on its own is already an overkill with their 650p total regen potency, and often time it’s harder to come up with situations where you’ll get to use both the healing receive buff AND the regen—one of them usually gets wasted if they want to buff their E.Prog shield together with Zoe, like SCHs do with Spreadlo+FI.

[…]Yeh, if you had to choose between 'WHM has to cast Cure2' and 'PLD is in Requiescat, and could cast a boosted Clemency instead of a HolySpirit', back then it was 'more efficient' for the party's overall DPS for the PLD to sac a stack of Req and do the healing, rather than make the WHM drop a Glare. Of course, this had to be changed because the tanks were feeling a bit emasculated, getting outdamaged by a floaty twinkly-lights-and-flowers enthusiast[…]

It’ll never not be funny to me knowing that each of WHM’s Glare cast has about the same effective potency as WAR’s Fell Cleave in those times.

[Supersnow845]

Exactly, SCH has three GCD buffs and only one of them really has a strong secondary purpose when used in an optimised situation (illumination as dissipation as emergency aetherflow stacks is really more a recovery tool). SGE has zero functionally free GCD amplifiers

So not only is the initial shield almost twice as powerful (and has more pure healing attached which also benefits from the amplifiers) SCH can buff it more at a lower cost.

[ForsakenRoe]

The other thing with SCH is, since a Crit is 1.5x (ish) with our current gear, it means that Recitation forcing a Crit when used on Succor, instead of an Adloquium, is functionally very similar to Zoe's effect on E.Prognosis' barrier size. Or in other words, if you don't need one massive shield via Deploy-Adlo, SCH has access to Zoe-E.Prog, over twice as often, due to Deploy and Zoe filling a similar role (and both being 90s), but Recitation-Succor combo is a 60s CD that also provide that same level of protection (as Zoe-E.Prog)

[Azurarok]

It’ll never not be funny to me knowing that each of WHM’s Glare cast has about the same effective potency as WAR’s Fell Cleave in those times.

This sounds weirdly similar to what I said of RDM/SMN's balancing in EW. Dumbing it down in ShB made healer dps seem too easy to do compared to tanks, so instead of returning the damaging tools they just lowered healer damage output.

[miraidensetsu]

I genuinely have no idea how people feel any sort of power in WHM

I don't feel powerful as WHM. The thing is that I feel even more powerless when playing as AST.

For me, AST works better at harder group content. And even for Ultimates, a WHM can dish out sufficient healing. Alas, any healer can do it.

Maybe it’s just because I’ve been a shield healer main for longer than 14 had been around but WHM feels like the biggest waste of a party slot.

Maybe you're just toxic.

Maybe you just don't know how to play with WHM. Nor even with a WHM as co-healer. And in that case, the waste of party slot is that one you're occupying.

It just doesn’t DO anything. Any meaningful heal check in this game is a mit check and WHM provides less mit than PCT or MCH let alone the other healers.

A shield healer that doesn't want to mitigate. Oh, God.

I had my share of non-mitigating shield healer.

Sure it can make HP bars “go up” faster than the other three but when is that ever actually a concern in this game. Not to mention glare 3’s animation is nowhere near as impactful as the stone family.

[QUOTE=Supersnow845;6643681]IDK but u feel completely useless on WHM.

I feel useless as AST. And it's because that class didn't clicked with me. It's too much work to do the same thing I do as a WHM.

And as WHM I can be more useful than you and your alleged "14 years". At least I can adapt to any co-healer.

I just have to stand around doing near nothing and hoping the other party members will keep me alive so then I can throw out some pointless heals the other healers could do just as easily as me despite it being my “niche”

And that's why YOU are the waste of party slot. Not the poor WHM that's stuck with you.

Like it feels terrible having no advantage

But WHM is getting clears anyways. Some of top 10 runs on that forbidden site is with WHM. So, maybe those advantages can be kinda overestimated?

[Lorika]

You're far from being powerless as WHM.

In fact, you can ditch some serious HPS. The main difference with the ASYT is that it as a lot of delayed heal while WHM they are all direct.
The AST shine on the duration while WHM shine by it's straightfowardess and quickness to respond at a unforseen situation.

A good exemple is Alphastice 1.0, when the boss get all the party to 1HP (it's because i did it this WE that this exemple pop up in my mind ). Only the WHM can put back everyone between 75% to full HP in a mere 2 buttons (or 3 if swiftcast is up).

It's a relatively low level exemple but, if you look at the WHM kit, everything is done to enhance it's raw and direct Healing.

To sum up, with AST you must plan when and how to use your healing kit (the same with SCH), whith WHM you react directly to the present situation.

[AmiableApkallu]

I don't feel powerful as WHM. The thing is that I feel even more powerless when playing as AST.

I'd put my own feelings this way:

In terms of dealing damage, I feel AST is less powerful than WHM. The visual and sound effects don't suggest "hard hits", and the N% damage buffs feel like because there's no real feedback to them.

In terms of healing, I feel AST is more powerful than WHM. AST has an answer for almost anything WHM can do, and often still in a single button that's at worst equal and at best strictly better. The only thing WHM does better than AST (and the other healers) is restoring HP right now and on demand — which takes something approaching the 14 minute "all the DPS have perma Brink-of-Death" P7N run I had the pleasure of doing, or maybe the very occasional P10N Harrowing Hell-like mechanic, to really shine.

[Supersnow845]

I don't feel powerful as WHM. The thing is that I feel even more powerless when playing as AST.

For me, AST works better at harder group content. And even for Ultimates, a WHM can dish out sufficient healing. Alas, any healer can do it.



Maybe you're just toxic.

Maybe you just don't know how to play with WHM. Nor even with a WHM as co-healer. And in that case, the waste of party slot is that one you're occupying.



A shield healer that doesn't want to mitigate. Oh, God.

I had my share of non-mitigating shield healer.

Sure it can make HP bars “go up” faster than the other three but when is that ever actually a concern in this game. Not to mention glare 3’s animation is nowhere near as impactful as the stone family.


IDK but u feel completely useless on WHM.

I feel useless as AST. And it's because that class didn't clicked with me. It's too much work to do the same thing I do as a WHM.

And as WHM I can be more useful than you and your alleged "14 years". At least I can adapt to any co-healer.



And that's why YOU are the waste of party slot. Not the poor WHM that's stuck with you.



But WHM is getting clears anyways. Some of top 10 runs on that forbidden site is with WHM. So, maybe those advantages can be kinda overestimated?

I have no idea why you just randomly built this sort of belief around that point that isn’t true. Like I can’t have hurt your feelings about WHM that bad can I

Like I said WHM barely does anything on the mitigation front and you somehow thought that means i don’t mitigate as the shield healer? Or that I don’t know how WHM works and I’m somehow the toxic one? Like why am I the toxic one for not seeing potential in WHM? Just because you think your class is good doesn’t mean I have to think it’s good as a potential partner, that doesn’t make me a bad potential partner Like where did you even make that connection? Or that somehow I’m inflexible as a healer when the problem is simply WHM doesn’t have any tools to functionally bend around because it has no tools that AST doesn’t do better. How am I supposed to bend around “ease of play”. Your ease of play doesn’t change how I approach my job, if anything losing CU and the potential cushion of neutral so you can play an easier class makes MY job as the shield healer harder

WHM isn’t bad enough to be unable to clear, it’s not good enough to be terribly good at it though. As lorika points out it’s ONE singular major advantage is white hole and we haven’t had a white hole mechanic in 7 years