#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[Kohashi]

Solo healing is not the point (where did you even get that from) because all of those fights are very very viable with double shield healer but good luck with double meme healer comp

You’ve yet to present a case as to why regens bring anything useful to the vast majority of encounters besides AST doing more damage than anyone else

The point is the shield healers are simply too strong and the strengths of the regen healers are wasted. You pointing out limited excess GCD healing on forsaken’s part doesn’t disprove her point that SGE uselessly vomits out healing that makes even the regen healers blush and SCH only kinda passes under the radar because it’s easier to dump into ED than anything else

The point that you are trying to make is based on a flawed example. Sure, if you just look at their initial picture, you can assume that, in that case, the WHM was close to useless.
However, conclusions should not be drawn in a vacuum, but they should be drawn while analyzing the context and trying to understand the entire setup by looking at the factors that contributed to that outcome.

[Supersnow845]

The point that you are trying to make is based on a flawed example. Sure, if you just look at their initial picture, you can assume that, in that case, the WHM was close to useless.
However, conclusions should not be drawn in a vacuum, but they should be drawn while analyzing the context and trying to understand the entire setup by looking at the factors that contributed to that outcome.

I didn’t make the solo healing example, you did, I used the example of double shields being good vs double regens being a meme and how AST isn’t the problem child in that relationship because it can act as a pseudo shield healer while WHM cannot because of its excessively rigid mitigation. If regen healers were so essential then why is double shield healer such a strong comp

This game basically treats every healer as an assumed shield healer and WHM is the only one not equipped to actually fulfil that role which makes the shield healers job harder. Its theoretical HPS is incredibly niche simply because it has to be entirely unplanned as the other healers can stock high HPS equivalent moves to compensate. So why bring the “I may save you in the rare circumstance where everyone is incredibly low and it’s totally unplanned so nobody but me has an answer but otherwise I’m weaker on mitigation than some DPS” over the “I’m always useful because I actually have good mitigation in my kit” (which healer am I talking about here, it doesn’t matter because it applies to any healer not called WHM)

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

Points out cases "shield+shield/ast = good ; meme comp/regen+regen = bad" (gross oversimplification yes, but you get the idea). Then slapped with 'no synergy with cohealer/pls solo heal FRU as shield healer'.

Really feels like reading a response from SE.

[…]Assuming all of that, yeh, I think a SGE could still potentially solo heal the fight

IMHO from what I recall from their track record, many encounters are solo healable. The regular ‘wall’ are usually specific mechanics that throws out invisible healer marker that goes to a random person whenever 2nd healer does not exist in the party.

[Supersnow845]

what?????? What 3 mits/ 2 minutes? Are you counting CU twice?

Also, I have NEVER seen 2 AST in a party in high-end content, just the same way I have never seen 2 WHM, why would you even want or measure the class design on such a flawed premise? What's even the point of it?

This is your own quote where you randomly bought up having two of the same type of a regen healer………for literally zero reason that had nothing to do with what you quoted me on 3 pages ago. I have only mentioned that double regen healer doesn’t work as evidence for the weakness of WHM. The only reason I bring up double regen comps is because they DONT work, while double shield comps are only not meta because of AST’s damage, that is evidence pure healers are severely under-utilised and like I said AST is not the problem child in that relationship. That is the only point I have ever made

Just curious, when was the last time you PF-ed, and how niche were those cases where people either stood in bad, died (including your co-heal), or people forgot to press their mit button, and everyone was super low?

That’s a pointless question because “stand in bad and died” is something that any healer can rectify, outside of benediction WHM’s single target healing isn’t any stronger than any other healer and bene should be heal planned anyway, the other statement “someone forgot to press a mitigation and now everyone is low” is arguably a vote in favour of anything besides WHM because they have the capacity to over mitigate. Regardless the central point is flawed because it’s not “someone stood in bad” it’s “when did a situation occur in which WHM and ONLY WHM’s HPS was enough to save a run where the other healers would have failed” and that is vanishingly rare with skills like seraphism or neutral sect around because with those skills WHM’s HPS really isn’t even that much higher, it’s more on demand but if the situation is “heal now or die” then future heal plans go out the window anyway

[Kohashi]

The only reason I bring up double regen comps is because they DONT work, while double shield comps are only not meta because of AST’s damage, that is evidence pure healers are severely under-utilised and like I said AST is not the problem child in that relationship. That is the only point I have ever made.


That’s a pointless question because “stand in bad and died” is something that any healer can rectify

I have to say, the amount of stupid shit that you are saying it's between funny and right down bafling. It just shows how little understanding you have of what is currently happening and how systems work.

Yes, it is relevant because while there are many talented and skilled individuals, the average PF and people raiding overall do a LOT of mistakes. That's why even in statics, it is hard to have a completely rigid healing rotation. Stuff happens, people stand in bad, such is life. Nobody is perfect, mistakes can happen, and having a pure + a shield is always better to mitigate such occurrences.


Also, probably the reason why double shield is not meta is because it requires extra planning and synergy/ communication between the healers since a lot of the stuff overlaps and cancels each other. It can absolutely be done, but why even add a layer of complexity when the easiest way would be to have one of each?

The damage is not frequent and/or hits hard enough to force this particular set of gameplay.

[ForsakenRoe]

Also, probably the reason why double shield is not meta is because it requires extra planning and synergy/ communication between the healers since a lot of the stuff overlaps and cancels each other. It can absolutely be done, but why even add a layer of complexity when the easiest way would be to have one of each?

'A lot' in this case being 'just Galvanize/Catalyze, and Eukrasian Diagnosis (and Differential Diagnosis)/Eukrasian Prognosis'. Every other barrier stacks with one another without any issue/overwriting

[Supersnow845]

I have to say, the amount of stupid shit that you are saying it's between funny and right down bafling. It just shows how little understanding you have of what is currently happening and how systems work.

Yes, it is relevant because while there are many talented and skilled individuals, the average PF and people raiding overall do a LOT of mistakes. That's why even in statics, it is hard to have a completely rigid healing rotation. Stuff happens, people stand in bad, such is life. Nobody is perfect, mistakes can happen, and having a pure + a shield is always better to mitigate such occurrences.


Also, probably the reason why double shield is not meta is because it requires extra planning and synergy/ communication between the healers since a lot of the stuff overlaps and cancels each other. It can absolutely be done, but why even add a layer of complexity when the easiest way would be to have one of each?

The damage is not frequent and/or hits hard enough to force this particular set of gameplay.

Because again you haven’t actually replied to anything

I’m arguing WHM is underpowered. You seem to be thinking I’m saying pure healers are useless. Pure healers strengths are not properly capitalised on but AST isn’t weak; WHM is. So how bad PF is or isn’t is only relevant in terms of a situation where ONLY WHM can avoid a wipe the others couldn’t, not how rigid healing plans are for double shields (which the only reason double shields are even in the conversation is because whether you condition their planning harder or not they arent a meme comp like double regen)

The chance of WHM being the only healer that can resolve a near wipe that every other healer would fail are very few and very far between. If you want to argue I’m implying regen healers are totally useless I’ll argue that point with you but that’s not the point I’m making, you just seem to bounce between both points and call me stupid whenever you randomly decide to change which one of the two points you are arguing about

[Kohashi]

As the main SCH, for 5 years of playing Savages and Ultimates in statics and just PF. I can say that the most pleasant co-heal for me was Sage, the second AST and the last WHM. Because in most raids it is a check for mitigates, and not for pure healing.
With Sage, in most fights, the use of shields was reduced to a minimum, sometimes not used at all, so we get 2 times more mitigates and a large regeneration of pure heal covered all the meager incoming damage.
With Astrologer 50/50, the job itself is strong, which has enough mitigates. But the person playing for him must distribute his skills correctly. And then he reaches the level with Sage.
But as for WHM, in 95% of cases they do not know or do not remember or do not want to use Medica II or Cure III where it is really necessary. And also one Temperance is too little for a game where there is a constant mitigation check. It turns into 80% work for the shielder and 20% work for the WHM. Where in some 11 minutes of combat the shielder has 20-35 shields and the VHM has 0 Medica II and 0 Cure III. (I had a case yesterday in m7s where the WHM itself died, they find me under my Concitation and Sacred Soil with 50% HP, he ran out of Afflatus Rapture and decided not to heal at all.

Just because you've played with shitty WHMs doesn't equates with the class being bad. It only speaks of their personal mastery over the job and game, nothing else. You should know that much if you at least cleared Ultimates on your own and not with your PayPal.

Because again you haven’t actually replied to anything

I’m arguing WHM is underpowered. You seem to be thinking I’m saying pure healers are useless. Pure healers strengths are not properly capitalised on but AST isn’t weak; WHM is. So how bad PF is or isn’t is only relevant in terms of a situation where ONLY WHM can avoid a wipe the others couldn’t, not how rigid healing plans are for double shields (which the only reason double shields are even in the conversation is because whether you condition their planning harder or not they arent a meme comp like double regen)

The chance of WHM being the only healer that can resolve a near wipe that every other healer would fail are very few and very far between. If you want to argue I’m implying regen healers are totally useless I’ll argue that point with you but that’s not the point I’m making, you just seem to bounce between both points and call me stupid whenever you randomly decide to change which one of the two points you are arguing about

Underpowered in what sense? They can get the team from 10% to 100% in 2 spells. AST is great, but unless they have Macro, they cannot do that.
I lost count of how many times I carried on WHM and how many wipes were prevented just because of the raw healing power the WHM has.

[bundythenoob]

I personally wouldn't mind if SCH traded soil for shadowflare so that WHM's Asylum and SGEs Kerchole feel more unique

in my opinion, WHM and SGE should be the straightforward "battlemage" damage dealers. Their healing kits are already strong, so combining certain skills together and changing some of their healing tools into damage abilities could work wonders
let SCH and AST trade higher personal damage for utility. AST shows that a healer job with party buffs can exist, why not give SCH more stratagem-type debuffs and allow us to spread them to adds via Deployment Tactics

this of course requires gamewide encounter and leveling kit changes, but I do not expect any simple solutions for a problem that could've been fixed ages ago had they listened to the healer playerbase back in 5.0

[Innio]

As the main SCH, for 5 years of playing Savages and Ultimates in statics and just PF. I can say that the most pleasant co-heal for me was Sage, the second AST and the last WHM. Because in most raids it is a check for mitigates, and not for pure healing.
With Sage, in most fights, the use of shields was reduced to a minimum, sometimes not used at all, so we get 2 times more mitigates and a large regeneration of pure heal covered all the meager incoming damage.
With Astrologer 50/50, the job itself is strong, which has enough mitigates. But the person playing for him must distribute his skills correctly. And then he reaches the level with Sage.
But as for WHM, in 95% of cases they do not know or do not remember or do not want to use Medica II or Cure III where it is really necessary. And also one Temperance is too little for a game where there is a constant mitigation check. It turns into 80% work for the shielder and 20% work for the WHM. Where in some 11 minutes of combat the shielder has 20-35 shields and the WHM has 0 Medica II and 0 Cure III. (I had a case yesterday in m7s where the WHM itself died, they find me under my Concitation and Sacred Soil with 50% HP, he ran out of Afflatus Rapture and decided not to heal at all.