#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[ZephyrMenodora]

Also, 'extensive' is doing a LOT of heavy lifting. I'd like to believe that a lot of players who are asking for this 'extensive' kit, are simply asking for the SB damage kits back which is... one extra DOT per job, essentially?

I thought they wanted to reduce dots in this game for whatever reason.

[Kes13a]

The reason I am in this thread is because I feel they failed in making the other responsibilities matter. I never wanted a DPS rotation and it's not my point of supporting the strike. This is probably why they kept it vague. We won't all agree on the actual solutions.

thats an understatement. SE is currently in the business of stripping all responsibility from healers

[Bobby66]

See, you're just proving my point.

Damage isn't the focus, it's not your main priority, it's optional.

So something completely optional needed to be simplified because......?

I mean wasn't this also the Dev that also thinks a tool is inherently toxic, got rid of chat in ranked pvp because people are toxic, and legit had a host made fun of roasted for their performance during some event.

In short Yoshi-P does not trust our community with a plastic butter knife. While optional it would not be optional and people would push for it be to the standard and players would get nasty about it. That is why they want to keep the DPS kit so simple that it is borderline impossible to screw up.

[IDontPetLalas]

I mean wasn't this also the Dev that also thinks a tool is inherently toxic, got rid of chat in ranked pvp because people are toxic, and legit had a host made fun of roasted for their performance during some event.

In short Yoshi-P does not trust our community healers with a plastic butter knife. While optional it would not be optional and people would push for it be to the standard and players would get nasty about it. That is why they want to keep the DPS kit so simple that it is borderline impossible to screw up.

It's healers. Not "the community".
Not to mention, you're comparing apples and oranges, and not even accurately, in the case of CC, chat was limited in all modes, and it took less than a day for toxic spam to start even with the limited chat that we had - not that "everyone" did it, but it happened frequently enough.

In the case of DPS skills, we have less than we used to have, fine, but where it matters, having less DPS skills makes it more difficult to optimize now. There have been some very good posts outline why so no, it's not "impossible to screw up", I would argue that there are better ways to design a job, if cognitive overload is a concern, probably by integrating healing and DPS skills (like macrocosmos).

[Punslinger]

Essentially DPS rotations are not the point and focus of the healer job. It makes perfect sense.

DPS rotations are not the point and focus of the tank job, either. So why do tanks get more than two DPS buttons to push?

Tanxiety is a thing, enough people talk about it for you to see that this is true. Tanks are expected to be the leader, set the pace, position the boss, use their mits, and handle swaps and shared busters. And yet, tanks aren't coddled and babied the way healers are. CBU3 isn't saying, "Oh you poor dears, let's take away all but two damage buttons so that you won't feel unreasonably pressured to deal damage while tanking."

This is the problem with the "healers shouldn't DPS" argument. Every formulation of it applies equally to tanks, and none of the people advancing it ever acknowledge it, even after it is pointed out to them. It is an argument for a different game than FF14. FF14 doesn't, and never has had, an attrition healing model. It would be nice if it did, but it doesn't. Given that reality, given the mountains of evidence that the devs don't give an airborne fornication about the healer role, a better DPS kit is the least-effort way for CBU3 to make the role less boring.

I come from 1.0 thanks. I've seen the arguments, and I've seen how the content has never changed to REQUIRE DPS from the healer. Between the developers confirming that, and poorly skilled players complaining about DPS numbers for purely egotistical reasons, not once has anyone shown where a piece of content in the game was actually designed as not completable by playing it as designed.

This post by Nizzi demonstrates, using the world-record speedkill for E8S, that healer DPS is required to clear E8S. Subtracting the healer DPS from the world-record speedkill leaves a remaining DPS number that is below the minimum needed to beat the enrage for that fight. It was mathematically impossible to clear E8S without healer DPS when it was current content.

[Bobby66]

It's healers. Not "the community".
Not to mention, you're comparing apples and oranges, and not even accurately, in the case of CC, chat was limited in all modes, and it took less than a day for toxic spam to start even with the limited chat that we had - not that "everyone" did it, but it happened frequently enough.

In the case of DPS skills, we have less than we used to have, fine, but where it matters, having less DPS skills makes it more difficult to optimize now. There have been some very good posts outline why so no, it's not "impossible to screw up", I would argue that there are better ways to design a job, if cognitive overload is a concern, probably by integrating healing and DPS skills (like macrocosmos).

No it would be the community, hell we had an entire saga in this game where people were debating healer doing doing verse those that wanted to heal bot. We still have debates about people regarding W2W verse single pull tanks. Back in the day we had debates over tank stance verse dps stance tanking. Our community has shown itself that "optional" cannot just be optional.

As stated by many sure you can come up with a bunch of ideas, but if it goes against what the main Dev wants GG getting that change. For whatever reason Yoshi-P thinks what he is doing is best. Sure we have some nuggets of him changing his mind, but at this point retracting from his notion of limiting options would not be a good look because they have not done it to a bunch of classes.

Sadly, all those great ideas are not from devs that actually work on the game, so yes some of them are neat but I have more faith that I will wake up one day with a million dollars in my bank verse then actually taking of said suggestions listed here to heart. Any change they take legit would have to fit within the scope of keeping the DPS kit a limited as humanly possible. As that quote from 2021 states the idea for healer is not to conflate that healers need to do good damage while also healing. Clearly they don't trust people to do both.

Remember it seems Yoshi-P rather have skill expression be expressed by completing harder content like Ult.

[Aravell]

Any change they take legit would have to fit within the scope of keeping the DPS kit a limited as humanly possible. As that quote from 2021 states the idea for healer is not to conflate that healers need to do good damage while also healing. Clearly they don't trust people to do both.

The funny thing is that the current healer design makes it more punishing for new players to do damage.

As we know, newer players generally either don't know what OGCDs are or they save those for emergencies. This means that they normally spam GCD heals, and every GCD spent on not their filler is a lot of lost damage that will continue to stack up.

Contrast that with pre-ShB, where you can put up all your DoTs and not lose as much to GCD healing. In their effort to make doing damage more accessible, they've managed to make it harder to do damage for the very people that needed that accessibility in the first place.

[Bobby66]

The funny thing is that the current healer design makes it more punishing for new players to do damage.

As we know, newer players generally either don't know what OGCDs are or they save those for emergencies. This means that they normally spam GCD heals, and every GCD spent on not their filler is a lot of lost damage that will continue to stack up.

Contrast that with pre-ShB, where you can put up all your DoTs and not lose as much to GCD healing. In their effort to make doing damage more accessible, they've managed to make it harder to do damage for the very people that needed that accessibility in the first place.

They made it harder to optimize, but I do not think most normal mode and dungeon healers care about what is optimal. People also did not like dot management either.

They did make it more accessible by the nature of making it so healers do not have to play optimally to clear the content. I mean come on we already have people crying about the current difficulty of the current normal mode raid. They can throw out a dps spell every so often and generally get a clear in both normal and dungeon content.

Which is where I think personally they balance the classes around that level of play, but then add harder content like ult to challenge players. It is a balance idk maybe in their heads they feel if they add a little more depth to jobs they will have to tone down encounters to keep a certain balance idk.

Maybe I am crazy but isn't the healer strike about normal play? I am pretty sure we all understand that the balance from the bottom up not top down. They have shown this is the direction they wish to go with many job changes. So that means depth and difficulty comes from the encounters, but the moment they even slightly add some difficulty people whine and cry about it. The devs are in a weird spot and I do not envy them.

End of the day the avg player is bad, we need to accept that what may seem simple for us may not be the case for others.

[Supersnow845]

They made it harder to optimize, but I do not think most normal mode and dungeon healers care about what is optimal. People also did not like dot management either.

They did make it more accessible by the nature of making it so healers do not have to play optimally to clear the content. I mean come on we already have people crying about the current difficulty of the current normal mode raid. They can throw out a dps spell every so often and generally get a clear in both normal and dungeon content.

Which is where I think personally they balance the classes around that level of play, but then add harder content like ult to challenge players. It is a balance idk maybe in their heads they feel if they add a little more depth to jobs they will have to tone down encounters to keep a certain balance idk.

But I mean that just circles back round to “if they are balancing the content assuming that the healer is getting 1 GCD uptime in every 10 because they are overwhelmed then the design of the damage kit shouldn’t matter because you just engage with it as far as you are able”

[Bobby66]

But I mean that just circles back round to “if they are balancing the content assuming that the healer is getting 1 GCD uptime in every 10 because they are overwhelmed then the design of the damage kit shouldn’t matter because you just engage with it as far as you are able”

What I am saying is let us be honest, what MMO community do you know of that would not push people to do what is best or fastest? It is the same issue with specs. Say you enjoy playing a certain spec but it does a certain percentage less then another you know parts of the community to not let said spec take part. Just how gamers are.

Say they made it 100% optional people would still push for it to be the standard. We still see it with shit like W2W and single pull tanks. Optional is optional but some people would go out their way to push others to a certain standard. I do not think SE is for that. Take the change to feast chat, honestly I think we should have chat and just report the bad apples, but they rather just nuke chat to limit the issue altogether.