#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[Silver-Strider]

The developers are on record multiple times that the fights are not designed for ANY DPS to come from the healer. If you want to clear that raid at minimum ilevel, you can still do it.

Some players just have no patience and are goblins about "looking busy" even when they're the one being carried. It is far more likely that the tank or the healer DPS "helps a teeny-tiny bit" when the DPS keep eating dirt. If the DPS keeps eating dirt that is a net DPS loss. If those DPS want to whine about healers not DPS'ing I better see them not taking a single bit of avoidable damage.

It is factually incorrect to claim that content is unclearable without the healer DPS'ing. If people really gave a care about their DPS, every single DPS would be a black mage since they have the highest DPS output. No ranged DPS at all. That DPS gap between having 1 DNC/MCH/BRD vs one BLM is bigger than the Healer DPS'ing at all.

This has been proven mathematically impossible multiple times throughout the years since it was stated in HW. It has not aged well at all and has only gotten worse with time. It's a sad joke at this point.

[Kohashi]

This is simply not true and a cursory glance at literally any of the many resources and datapoints we have on the matter would show you that this is not true. The difference between a physranged and a BLM is not 'bigger than the healer DPS'ing', because a Healer DPS'ing is going to deal anywhere from 6k to something like 7.8k damage (with current BIS). There's not a 6k damage difference between a DNC and a BLM unless you are looking at 'ADPS' and not factoring in the fact that DNC has buffs that it contributes to the team, but even then, the median for ADPS for DNC (current savage) is 10.9k, and BLM 14.6k. So, about 50% of what ONE Healer contributes, now factor in that there's two Healers in the party for this kind of content

Yoshi-P's been shown to be incorrect in his assertions in interviews numerous times, when it comes to Healers. For example, he has said at one point in SB that 'SCH was leaving WHM to do all the healing', and data showed that not only was SCH giving out equal HPS to WHM in optimized runs, if mitigation was considered as HPS then (as it is now), the SCH in those examples would have been soaring ahead of WHM's HPS, since all the damage Soil blocks would suddenly count for HPS

Depends if we are talking about ECHO or not. Healers with echo generally do 8.5k-9.5k easily (depends on the fight as well because in p12s and p9s, the boss leaves the arena for Limit Cut).

But you are right, there is no way in hell you go past the enrage with healers doing nothing. 14k-18k damage difference is not something to neglect.

[Rolder50]

I went and checked the log website for the last Savage boss and checked for the lowest ranked Healer Combined Damage parse. So the run where both healers combined contributed the absolute minimum. That number was 7,286.8 DPS. You would think that, if it was possible to clear with 0 DPS from healers, someone would have done it by now, if for no other reason then for the meme.

[FiletMignon]

I guess it depends on what you are asking. If you are asking for a full party with 2 healers and these two healers actually do 0 dps and just focus heals vs a full party of 8 players of just tanks and dps. TOP has been cleared with 0 healers in party.

[Aidorouge]

i find it funny when people try to diminish forum feedback as if it shouldn't be considered because "it isn't the majority of the player-base"
Then why have forums in the first place?

My solution has always been to put those types of people on ignore. I mean, they said it themselves, "forum posts don't matter" so why would I want to read anything they have to say?

The idea as well that "only what people say/do in-game should matter" is also dubious because as was mentioned a long while ago, some people were talking about engaging in griefing behavior both for and against the strike (healers refusing to heal, tanks and DPS deliberately standing in bad, etc). Are we really supposed to assume that because these things were uttered in chat that they're going to represent the "majority" of what healers/tanks/DPS are going to be acting like in duty finder? I certainly hope not.

[Striker44]

We're not trying to declare how some majority feels and no one has ever said that but you. We are trying to get attention to *our* concerns with healer because we are passionate about the game and want to improve it and make it more fun.

The issue is that the second part is predicated on the first being true. What one person considers "improving" something or making it "more fun" could just as easily turn someone else off or make it unenjoyable, and that person could be just as passionate about the game as the first person. By its very nature, "improving" the game through a change requires the majority of the playerbase to see it that way. If doing something like adding a full dps rotation to healers makes someone here happy, but for every person here that wants it, there's 4 other people in-game who now find healing "ruined" for them, you haven't improved the game - you've actually done the opposite.

Thank you for actually just making their strike succeed. They get to play the fun DPS jobs while you now, in your attempt to "gotcha" them, have to play the terribly-designed and boring jobs.

To the person who said this in response to someone saying they would now intentionally switch to healing...what? Are you suggesting the true purpose of the strike is what its supporters have been trying to deny all along - to take fun away from other people? Because that's the only way this makes sense. Aside from misstating your personal opinion as if it's fact (others can find healers well-designed and quite enjoyable right now), the purported purpose of the strike is to see the devs change how healers work. If other people simply slide in and pick up the current healer role in your place, the dev team has no reason to actually change anything about it. In the end, the "success" of the strike is measured based on one thing and one thing only - is the healing role significantly changed in someway, and can said change be tied directly to the strike? If the dev team doesn't meaningfully alter how healers work, then the strike failed. Plain and simple.

[Supersnow845]

The issue is that the second part is predicated on the first being true. What one person considers "improving" something or making it "more fun" could just as easily turn someone else off or make it unenjoyable, and that person could be just as passionate about the game as the first person. By its very nature, "improving" the game through a change requires the majority of the playerbase to see it that way. If doing something like adding a full dps rotation to healers makes someone here happy, but for every person here that wants it, there's 4 other people in-game who now find healing "ruined" for them, you haven't improved the game - you've actually done the opposite.



To the person who said this in response to someone saying they would now intentionally switch to healing...what? Are you suggesting the true purpose of the strike is what its supporters have been trying to deny all along - to take fun away from other people? Because that's the only way this makes sense. Aside from misstating your personal opinion as if it's fact (others can find healers well-designed and quite enjoyable right now), the purported purpose of the strike is to see the devs change how healers work. If other people simply slide in and pick up the current healer role in your place, the dev team has no reason to actually change anything about it. In the end, the "success" of the strike is measured based on one thing and one thing only - is the healing role significantly changed in someway, and can said change be tied directly to the strike? If the dev team doesn't meaningfully alter how healers work, then the strike failed. Plain and simple.

And as has been stated 10 million times you also have no idea that changing the healers wouldn’t be of net benefit to the game. What’s the point of feedback even existing as a concept if every piece of feedback can be deflected as “think about the fact that you may actually be a minority and changing this thing may ruin it for other people”

Under your system the only way feedback would ever be “valid” is if square enix comes out directly and says “guys we are telling you to your face everyone hates healers PLEASE tell us how to fix them” which we know they will never do

[KisaiTenshi]

I'd like a citation on that developer statement but, even if they did say that, that's simply not true in our current FF XIV- I just gave you a few examples where fights cannot be cleared with 0 healer dps.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...NwqZTwPUw/edit

Q3.) So...healers now have their DPS scale with Mind AND accuracy is no longer an issue. Do you think this will lead to players having even higher expectations of healers to contribute DPS to content since it is a much easier thing to do now?

A.) First of all, we do not expect healers to contribute to DPS. However we know a lot of the cutting edge players enjoy this aspect about the job and that those progressing in the raids early on use it help clear the fights. We decided to make it so that the idea was more approachable and less punishing so that if a player wants to try it, they aren’t sacrificing all of their healing capabilities to do so like they were with the old Cleric Stance. We didn’t like seeing healers doing entire dungeons in Cleric Stance, especially if they forget to switch back and heal!

That being said, and I want you to really reinforce this to your viewers, I firmly believe it shouldn’t be mandatory and we do NOT have the expectation of them to DPS.

That came directly from Yoshi-P.

[Supersnow845]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...NwqZTwPUw/edit


That came directly from Yoshi-P.

That was from HW, it is no longer remotely mathematically possible to do that

[KisaiTenshi]

That was from HW, it is no longer remotely mathematically possible to do that

So you think Yoshi-P just turned and went "make these terrible DPS players suffer now." No.

Their design decisions have not changed, you can even see that on the third party site, the Healer's combined, can never contribute more than 10% of damage. The numbers are exactly the same as they were 7 years ago.

More to the point, if they intended the healer to DPS, the gap would be wider so you could not clear the content unless everyone was overgeared, including the healers.