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  1. #3471
    Player
    WeakestZenosEnjoyer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2024
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    288
    Character
    Scrappy Moonlord
    World
    Halicarnassus
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by RaevusAstra View Post
    I don't think SE should take player demands at face value. There shouldn't be a single reason on earth that people want one playerbase to suffer so the others can thrive. That's how we got here in the first place. Yes, casual content is so easy nowadays that you don't need healing, but this has been true throughout most of the game like Xeno said.
    it's not even true at low levels currently, I'd be really impressed if you could beat The Aurum Vale with only Storm's Path and Thrill of Battle.

    As for "making another playerbase suffer" in no way is that the plan.
    (3)

  2. #3472
    Player MagiusNecros's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Posts
    3,205
    Character
    Bastilaa Shan
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Blue Mage Lv 80
    If the game is designed around Savage/Ultimate or level cap then I think progressive difficulty as you level should happen instead of everything being the same at 50/60/70/80/90/100. And it would help alleviate the bad leveling experience which is bad because they balance around level cap. If it boils down to Raiders only think you matter if you clear every Ultimate vs. Casuals only think you matter if you got every Gold Gathering tool we are going to be here all year long in a Endless debate with the Sharlayan Forum.
    (4)

  3. #3473
    Player
    Fukuro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    764
    Character
    Oneiron Fuchs
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Archer Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by MagiusNecros View Post
    Overall I like Xeno because he isn't afraid to criticize the game and he cares more about the game instead of fearing the Wrath of Yoshi P not giving him a Media Tour invite.

    Most other Content Creators like MrHappy will not openly criticize or show any negativity towards FFXIV in any way.
    I don't think he should be afraid of Yoshi-P's reaction. Yoshi-P was pretty chill with Zepla's criticism of Endwalker, even thanking her and saying they were working on improvements. It's crazy how many people were toxic towards her just for criticizing the game. Sometimes, the toxic positivity in this community is just too much.
    And we see the same thing here, where constructive critisim gets dismissed as "dumb" without giving it a chance of thought by Mr Happy for example.
    (4)

  4. #3474
    Player
    Join Date
    Apr 2024
    Posts
    448
    Quote Originally Posted by TheFinalEpic View Post
    So majority of players don't do Savage and Ultimate.

    I'm pointing out that where difficulty matters (which is the point of this entire "strike") is at ultimate and savage. And the people who are striking don't do those content, so it doesn't matter.

    As for where they are going to "strike" which is the normal que, I'm going to guarantee you that 99 percent of players are not going to know about said "strike" and even though they do know, they don't care and still going to que.

    Not saying you shouldn't "strike", its a free world. But just don't get angry when it looks quite funny to the world.
    I find it funny how it's always someone who joined in ShB who says this.

    How would you know what peak healer gameplay looks like if you never experienced it? Oh okay, is this not really a fair argument? Then maybe also stop saying people didn't do content.

    Common arguments and responses for copy-pasting so you don't waste your time typing the same thing over and over again

    You folks don't do Savage/Ultimate / You don't do real content
    (1) There are a lot of Savage/Ulti healers in this Discord who share the same grievances.
    (2) Most of the playerbase don't do Savage or Ultimate. That doesn't mean the game shouldn't try to make their experience better.
    (18)
    Last edited by HighlanderClone; 06-21-2024 at 01:49 PM.

  5. #3475
    Player
    WaxSw's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Posts
    658
    Character
    Waxillium Larede
    World
    Twintania
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by TheFinalEpic View Post
    So majority of players don't do Savage and Ultimate.

    I'm pointing out that where difficulty matters (which is the point of this entire "strike") is at ultimate and savage. And the people who are striking don't do those content, so it doesn't matter.

    As for where they are going to "strike" which is the normal que, I'm going to guarantee you that 99 percent of players are not going to know about said "strike" and even though they do know, they don't care and still going to que.

    Not saying you shouldn't "strike", its a free world. But just don't get angry when it looks quite funny to the world.
    There has been multiple logs in this same thread of Savage and Ultimate fights that show that the problem of the kits persist. Those fights share the same problems as the easier content and yes, the people who does that content ALSO asks for changes.

    Those fights are less than 10% of the total content of the game, why tanks and dps can have fun in any kind of content but healers have to do those harder fights to find a tiny bit of engagement? Good design should work for all the content not less than 20 figths per expansion.

    (also all the savage and ultimate fights has been solo/no cleared showing that the full extent of the healing kit that a stardard party of healers can bring is not necessary even there)
    (14)
    Last edited by WaxSw; 06-19-2024 at 04:25 AM.

  6. #3476
    Player
    Illydth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2024
    Location
    Gredania
    Posts
    7
    Character
    Dapilene Roycroft
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Sage Lv 90
    ALL content is going to be more efficient the more Red players are taken...that's simple math...success rate is the only limiter to Red Engagmenet. Where content requires a Blue or Green participant to increase the success rate a Red player slot will be sacrificed for that Blue or Greeen participant...otherwise a Red will be slotted...and this is the crux of the #ffxivhealerstrike problem.

    In FFXIV's case what green players provide is a safety net. FFXIV doesn't include enough general unavoidable damage and damage profiles that require a healing check to bypass. It's not that there is NO unavoidable damage, it's just that that damage is intended as it's own mechanic...boss uses ability to set all the HP of the raid to 1 and begins a windup for raidwide damage, can the healers blow enough OGCDs and GCDs to heal past the incoming damage threshold. The cognitive load that a healer provides in FFXIV's case is for Red and Blue players to worry less about their incoming damage and more about the things that they do best in group content: Damage, Mitigation, Pulling, etc.

    I support #FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE not because some random world leading guild managed to down the hardest content in the game using RDM and PLD healing instead of Green Players, but because as the content gets easier and easier, success rate approaches 100% more and more often and thus Efficiency begins to trump consistency. And the only role that does NOT contribute to Efficiency of a run is the healer role.

    The core problem is that Green Players do not contribute to the EFFICIENCY of content, only success. What Omega proved is that there is no content in the game that REQUIRES a Green Player. There is plenty of content in the game for which Green Players make the success rate significantly higher (and to be clear that is MOST content in the game right now), but for "solved" content...content that does not carry a cognitive load with it and has long since lost it's challenge for the general player base...there is nothing a Green Player can do to contribute to the efficiency of the run...other than step out and let a Red take their place. That is not true for the other roles in the game and points to a design flaw that needs fixed.

    Talk all you want about borring healing jobs and DPS buttons and adding spell effects to Spells like Esuna, the problem healers are facing is obsolessence through the design of the game. You might find healing a booring job, but that problem pales in comparison to simply having no reason to exist.
    (9)

  7. #3477
    Player
    Niroken's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    411
    Character
    Nanaki Naki
    World
    Famfrit
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Kes13a View Post
    not only that, but stop giving healer abilities to non healers. like sorry, why does monk need a aoe regen... exactly? SE is going out of its way at this point to make the healer jobs actually useless.
    As seen in this thread "Go play DPS if you want to DPS".

    Well, go play Healer if you want to heal. You would think they would be on board considering the logic.
    (10)

  8. #3478
    Player
    Gullis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2021
    Posts
    512
    Character
    Gullis Hil
    World
    Twintania
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by TheFinalEpic View Post
    So majority of players don't do Savage and Ultimate.

    I'm pointing out that where difficulty matters (which is the point of this entire "strike") is at ultimate and savage. And the people who are striking don't do those content, so it doesn't matter.
    just saying that healing isn't really much more fun in savage, due to the scripted nature of them. You still end up with a ton of downtime, and a whole lot of 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 11
    I'm a mediocre player, but did most savage fights in EW as AST, and the difficulty came purely from the fight mechanics themselves, and not because healing was hard or interesting. Only mechanic of note I can rememeber was Harrowing hell.
    (11)

  9. #3479
    Player
    Falkyron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2022
    Posts
    20
    Character
    Pandora Syl'daos
    World
    Siren
    Main Class
    Culinarian Lv 100
    There are a lot of issue with healers right now, but using that Xenos video as an example is not the right call.
    If you have a contender for the best warrior tank in the world cycling defensive cooldowns, and a team of savage raiding streamers, and you're going into an early-expansion story dungeon, then you don't need a healer. The reasoning is that people doing their jobs this well are rewarded by allowing the healer to DPS for the entire dungeon, and having the healer as a safety net rather than a necessity.

    You will still "need a healer" in any dungeon group that isn't performing well, and that's not just on the tank; all three others in your group have to be above par. If your DPS is not up to scratch, the delays in finishing the pulls will force the tank to stagger mitigation more or cause them to run out of mitigation, depending on how bad the situation is.

    Yes, if all three of your party members are avoiding unnecessary damage, using their self-healing, and the tank is overperforming, you're meant to adjust by focusing on DPS. It's legit a part of the game. Focus on other issues; this Xenos one is the wrong hill to die on.
    (1)

  10. #3480
    Player
    Nightshade878's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2024
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    14
    Character
    X'lyhhia Wiloh
    World
    Malboro
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 55
    Quote Originally Posted by WaxSw View Post
    There has been multiple logs in this same thread of Savage and Ultimate fights that show that the problem of the kits persist. Those fights share the same problems as the easier content and yes, the people who does that content ALSO asks for changes.

    Those fights are less than 10% of the total content of the game, why tanks and dps can have fun in any kind of content but healers have to do those harder fights to find a tiny bit of engagement? Good design should work for all the content not less than 20 figths per expansion.

    (also all the savage and ultimate fights has been solo/no cleared showing that the full extent of the healing kit that a stardard party of healers can bring is not necessary even there)

    What fucks me off most about this whole thread is that healers are basically asking "can we have the same amount of fun/engagement from content as everyone else?" and there are actually people in this thread going "No, fuck you". Madness.
    (23)

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