#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[Moonjava]

I would completely set aside the question of whether or not the current state of healers is good/healthy for a moment. There are inarguably plenty of players out there who enjoy the current state of healers and would not want them to change- they're not in this thread because they have no complaints and therefore have no reason to be on the official forums, but they absolutely exist, just by the law of large numbers. They pay their subs just like everyone here.

Why is their desire for their mains to stay the same less important than the desires of those of you demanding change? There's nothing to suggest there are more people demanding change than there are people who want things to stay the same, and there's no way of accurately measuring that ratio- the people who are satisfied by the game as-is will always be underrepresented, because anger is much more likely to drive someone to give feedback than contentment is. How do you justify demanding that SE make an unknowable number of players as upset as you are now in order to make the game suit your own personal preference?

[TheDustyOne]

I would completely set aside the question of whether or not the current state of healers is good/healthy for a moment. There are inarguably plenty of players out there who enjoy the current state of healers and would not want them to change- they're not in this thread because they have no complaints and therefore have no reason to be on the official forums, but they absolutely exist, just by the law of large numbers. They pay their subs just like everyone here.

Why is their desire for their mains to stay the same less important than the desires of those of you demanding change? There's nothing to suggest there are more people demanding change than there are people who want things to stay the same, and there's no way of accurately measuring that ratio- the people who are satisfied by the game as-is will always be underrepresented, because anger is much more likely to drive someone to give feedback than contentment is. How do you justify demanding that SE make an unknowable number of players as upset as you are now in order to make the game suit your own personal preference?

By this same conundrum; why was it changed from what HW/SB offered? Why should I have to play a Broil mage when I previously had access to several different DoTs on SCH? Why should their fun be prioritized over mine when WHM already offered something close to the nuke spam we have now (even they still had Aero III and Aero II was only 18s instead of 30).

[Moonjava]

By this same conundrum; why was it changed from what HW/SB offered? Why should I have to play a Broil mage when I previously had access to several different DoTs on SCH? Why should their fun be prioritized over mine when WHM already offered something close to the nuke spam we have now (even they still had Aero III and Aero II was only 18s instead of 30).

None of us can answer why it was changed before- maybe it shouldn't have been. I can't say. But people are demanding change now, and so I'm asking what justifies the very non-trivial development cost of the changes being demanded when those changes are very likely to piss a lot of people off and may only excite a comparatively smaller group of players.

[TheDustyOne]

None of us can answer why it was changed before- maybe it shouldn't have been. I can't say. But people are demanding change now, and so I'm asking what justifies the very non-trivial development cost of the changes being demanded when those changes are very likely to piss a lot of people off and may only excite a comparatively smaller group of players.

The same is again true in reverse; anecdotally I can only say that queue times got "better" for healers when ShB launched, which indicated that less people were playing healers compared to when I started in SB.

People like dealing damage, they like seeing big funny numbers, there's already plenty of memes around WHM screaming "BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD LILY!" people were excited at the concept of SGE being the "deal damage to heal" healer, so the inclusion of extra damage options would be exciting for people. And those that don't care for extra damage because "healers should be for healing" can just do what they do now and ignore them, even if they should know better.

[Moonjava]

The same is again true in reverse; anecdotally I can only say that queue times got "better" for healers when ShB launched, which indicated that less people were playing healers compared to when I started in SB.

People like dealing damage, they like seeing big funny numbers, there's already plenty of memes around WHM screaming "BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD LILY!" people were excited at the concept of SGE being the "deal damage to heal" healer, so the inclusion of extra damage options would be exciting for people. And those that don't care for extra damage because "healers should be for healing" can just do what they do now and ignore them, even if they should know better.

The situation doesn't truly go both ways, though, not from SE's perspective. Leaving things as-is is free; doing huge reworks of four jobs is very expensive, both in money and time. Reworking four jobs as immediately as most folks in this thread seem to be demanding will mean other content has to get postponed or cut- SE is not going to suddenly give CBU3 a budget increase to go hire a bunch more devs to work on job reworks just because one forum thread gained some traction (not that that would be logistically feasible anyway). And to your anecdote, ShB introduced one tank and one DPS job, so there would've been more people queuing as those roles, hence shorter queue times for healers. I'd be willing to bet that played a much bigger role in short healer queues than general satisfaction with playing healer, but there's no way of actually knowing.

Some people like dealing damage, some people like big funny number (me among them), but I've encountered plenty of healers who seem wholly uninterested in doing DPS and who could easily feel overwhelmed by more complex DPS rotations. Giving feedback is fine, but there are a lot of people in this thread demanding that SE capitulate to their preferences without justifying that demand or giving any reason why the benefits of doing so would outweigh the risks.

[TheDustyOne]

The situation doesn't truly go both ways, though, not from SE's perspective. Leaving things as-is is free; doing huge reworks of four jobs is very expensive, both in money and time. Reworking four jobs as immediately as most folks in this thread seem to be demanding will mean other content has to get postponed or cut- SE is not going to suddenly give CBU3 a budget increase to go hire a bunch more devs to work on job reworks just because one forum thread gained some traction (not that that would be logistically feasible anyway). And to your anecdote, ShB introduced one tank and one DPS job, so there would've been more people queuing as those roles, hence shorter queue times for healers. I'd be willing to bet that played a much bigger role in short healer queues than general satisfaction with playing healer, but there's no way of actually knowing.

Then they shouldn't have done the ShB reworks to begin with, all it did was design them into a hole that needs another redesign.

The inclusion of SGE also didn't fix the healer queue times, it was still mostly instant. So that argument doesn't work for me either.

Some people like dealing damage, some people like big funny number (me among them), but I've encountered plenty of healers who seem wholly uninterested in doing DPS and who could easily feel overwhelmed by more complex DPS rotations. Giving feedback is fine, but there are a lot of people in this thread demanding that SE capitulate to their preferences without justifying that demand or giving any reason why the benefits of doing so would outweigh the risks.

Then they can just ignore those buttons, it hardly matters in casual content since the only actual requirements for healers should be to meet the healing requirements. Damage is just a bonus in casual content.

In Ex/Savage they don't have a choice, and they should be dealing damage regardless of how they feel about it.

[Moonjava]

Then they shouldn't have done the ShB reworks to begin with, all it did was design them into a hole that needs another redesign.

Again, healers "need" a redesign according to you. A lot of people don't feel that way. Why is your opinion on the matter the "correct" one?

The inclusion of SGE also didn't fix the healer queue times, it was still mostly instant. So that argument doesn't work for me either.

There are countless reasons why healer queue times could have changed over time. I could come up with plenty of other possibilities, but our own pet theories can never be proven and are not evidence for anything.

Then they can just ignore those buttons, it hardly matters in casual content since the only actual requirements for healers should be to meet the healing requirements. Damage is just a bonus in casual content. In Ex/Savage they don't have a choice, and they should be dealing damage regardless of how they feel about it.

People generally don't find someone ignoring the bulk of their DPS rotation to be acceptable play in any level of content- they would inevitably get called out for it in some roulette or another. Introducing a more complex DPS rotation inherently raises the skill floor, even if the old rotation were technically still possible, and that would lead to some number of players, however small, quitting the game and would narrow the potential playerbase. I've still yet to see a compelling argument as to why SE should do that besides "I personally liked the old way better."

[Gemina]

Some people like dealing damage, some people like big funny number (me among them), but I've encountered plenty of healers who seem wholly uninterested in doing DPS and who could easily feel overwhelmed by more complex DPS rotations. Giving feedback is fine, but there are a lot of people in this thread demanding that SE capitulate to their preferences without justifying that demand or giving any reason why the benefits of doing so would outweigh the risks.

I've been seeing this direction of arguments not only from you, but from others as well. It aims to reignite the flames between the two factions of healers. While there are still green-DPS, and heals only healers cemented in their ways, the dev's direction has united them because now neither of them are enjoying the healer role. While one side would still like to see more damage options, and the other would like more punishing content, both of them are easily replaced in duties by a tank, and to a certain extent DPS jobs as well. Sorry, but this angle isn't going to work. Not under the current status quo, which is only going to get worse come DT.

The two factions of healers have shown that they are willing to compromise with each other and meet somewhere in the middle. Now is as opportune a time as ever for the dev team to make the proper changes to make this role fun for most of those who like to play it. It's time for them to give back some of the ground they've taken.

[Moonjava]

I've been seeing this direction of arguments not only from you, but from others as well. It aims to reignite the flames between the two factions of healers. While there are still green-DPS, and heals only healers cemented in their ways, the dev's direction has united them because now neither of them are enjoying the healer role. While one side would still like to see more damage options, and the other would like more punishing content, both of them are easily replaced in duties by a tank, and to a certain extent DPS jobs as well. Sorry, but this angle isn't going to work. Not under the current status quo, which is only going to get worse come DT.

The two factions of healers have shown that they are willing to compromise with each other and meet somewhere in the middle. Now is as opportune a time as ever for the dev team to make the proper changes to make this role fun for most of those who like to play it. It's time for them to give back some of the ground they've taken.

I really don't care what direction healers take- that's not my point. I'm looking at this from a cost/benefit perspective. Let's say currently, X players are upset with the state of healers and want them to change, and Y players really love the state of healers and would be upset by any change. SE cannot truly know the relative values of X and Y. The options are invest 0 resources and have X upset players, or invest a significant amount of resources and have Y upset players. Without significant evidence that X >>>> Y, I fail to see why SE should invest in a rework.

I understand the point of this "strike" is to try to give SE that evidence that X >>>> Y. But demands like this:

Now is as opportune a time as ever for the dev team to make the proper changes to make this role fun for most of those who like to play it. It's time for them to give back some of the ground they've taken.

...are unjustified until that evidence appears.

[IDontPetLalas]

I would completely set aside the question of whether or not the current state of healers is good/healthy for a moment. There are inarguably plenty of players out there who enjoy the current state of healers and would not want them to change- they're not in this thread because they have no complaints and therefore have no reason to be on the official forums, but they absolutely exist, just by the law of large numbers. They pay their subs just like everyone here.

Why is their desire for their mains to stay the same less important than the desires of those of you demanding change? There's nothing to suggest there are more people demanding change than there are people who want things to stay the same, and there's no way of accurately measuring that ratio- the people who are satisfied by the game as-is will always be underrepresented, because anger is much more likely to drive someone to give feedback than contentment is. How do you justify demanding that SE make an unknowable number of players as upset as you are now in order to make the game suit your own personal preference?

You raising some very good questions, which apply to any job changes. I have (in another game) had changes introduced on my main that I didn't like at all. I played that game for over 10 years, so I know how it feels to have a change forced onto a job that you like. I would point out that in any game, jobs will evolve, and game designers have to deal with these games- actually, it isn't unique to games, it's part of product design in general- if a change is made to a product , there's a risk that the customers using it may not like it.

Personally, I don't find it realistic to expect that "my" job never changes. Think about it, there could be issues with other jobs, encounters will change, all of which could impact "my" job.

So how do I have any control over those changes? One way, hopefully, is by providing my feedback on what I don't like, and ideally, by providing my feedback on proposed changes in advance.

I would also expect that Square evaluates i.e. measures both the current state and the trend of healer jobs and other jobs in order to assess their engagement/health, certainly before and after job changes to asses their impact. There are also ways to asses, both via metrics, and by engaging (surveys, interviews, analysis of social media, competitive analysis, etc.) to try to assess the state of healer satisfaction.