#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[HighlanderClone]

Truthfully, I'm struggling a bit to follow your train of thought here. You say that dungeons in HW were easy, but healers still felt critical.

HW dungeons are easy, but healers felt critical because without healers everyone would die. A healer forgetting to heal means everyone would die.

Yes, pressing Medica II every once in a while was easy, but if you did not do it everyone would die. That's why the content can be easy but the job is still critical.

You say that mechanic damage output in HW was similar to EW, but HW required far more healing.

Yes, because tanks and DPS had very little self-sustain. On top of that your healing oGCDs were also much more limited and less powerful, which means you required far more healing casts and healing actions.

That HW dungeons weren't complex, but a midcore group could not pull off a healerless dungeon run.

Yes? It is not hard to heal a dungeon and making sure everyone stays alive. They weren't complex. But because tanks and DPS had little self-sustain, most people couldn't pull off a healerless dungeon run. Not sure how much simpler I can explain this. Was it hard to heal through Cutter's Cry? Was Cutter's Cry a hard dungeon? OK, go try it healerless. It'll be far harder than doing any of the EW dungeons healerless.

Instead of trying to go back to "the good old days", I'd prefer to move forward with the current philosophy surrounding job design and see how else players can be engaged.

When content and job design are regressing, going back to the "good old days" is a positive. The old days were good. There is nothing wrong with pining for the good old days when the game was more engaging in the past. The current philosophy is something even Yoshi P regrets pursuing. Even the developer team does not want to move forward with the current philosophy. They want to go back, maybe not entirely to SB but it still shows that there is merit to the "good old days".

I personally didn't raid during those times, but from everything I've heard and read, the best words I can use to describe it are "obtuse" and "inconsistent".

OK, maybe you believe /r/ffxivdiscussion or somewhere else is the pinnacle of quality gameplay discussion and so believe everything you've read. But I've seen absolutely NO ONE make an effort to disentangle HW's objectively poor job clunkiness, horrible job QoL like stance switching on tanks, and pointless systems like accuracy, versus the superior job identity, higher skill ceilings, engaging and unique gameplay like SMN's DoT extension or AST's time mage gameplay. It's easy to dismiss the pining for HW/SB as rose-tinted glasses, but it's much harder for people to justify why the positive aspects of the previous expansions cannot be brought back into modern FF14. It's so hard that nobody ever tries to tackle it and resort to the lazy attempt to dismiss everything as nostalgia.

But that's not really important and I'd rather not get into a measuring contest.

OK?

I've also simultaneously been looking up people's characters to see what kind of content they are engaging in. And, to no surprise, the vast majority of the players complaining here are not doing high end content (Savage, Ultimate, and Criterion Savage). Maybe some Extremes here and there, but for the most part they do not seem to be raiding.

As someone who has healed Savage and some Ultimate, I do not share most of the sentiments voiced in this post.

[RhodesToRome]

When content and job design are regressing, going back to the "good old days" is a positive. The old days were good. There is nothing wrong with pining for the good old days when the game was more engaging in the past. The current philosophy is something even Yoshi P regrets pursuing. Even the developer team does not want to move forward with the current philosophy. They want to go back, maybe not entirely to SB but it still shows that there is merit to the "good old days".

OK, maybe you believe /r/ffxivdiscussion or somewhere else is the pinnacle of quality gameplay discussion and so believe everything you've read. But I've seen absolutely NO ONE make an effort to disentangle HW's objectively poor job clunkiness, horrible job QoL like stance switching on tanks, and pointless systems like accuracy, versus the superior job identity, higher skill ceilings, engaging and unique gameplay like SMN's DoT extension or AST's time mage gameplay. It's easy to dismiss the pining for HW/SB as rose-tinted glasses, but it's much harder for people to justify why the positive aspects of the previous expansions cannot be brought back into modern FF14. It's so hard that nobody ever tries to tackle it and resort to the lazy attempt to dismiss everything as nostalgia.

The interesting thing is you don't actually know that they want to "go back", and certainly not where they want to "go back" to. Focusing more on job identity could mean so many things. It's such a general sentiment that we can only speculate as to what that would look like and where they would take their inspiration from.

And I'm sorry, but it is absolutely rose-tinted glasses. I'm very confident that a majority of the playerbase, if given the choice, would prefer the game in its current iteration over HW. I could absolutely see an argument for some aspects of StB, but there were issues there that I would not like to see repeated.

You also seem to have missed my point when I mentioned the types of players and content that the complaints are coming from. Stating that I believe the majority of the responses here are from more casual players is not a knock against them, but more so pointing out where these problems are more obvious because they cover a wider range of the playerbase compared to the higher end content. It certainly was not intended to demean them or somehow prove I was better.

[TheDustyOne]

The interesting thing is you don't actually know that they want to "go back".

No, I very much do when it comes to healer design.

[HighlanderClone]

The interesting thing is you don't actually know that they want to "go back", and certainly not where they want to "go back" to. Focusing more on job identity could mean so many things. It's such a general sentiment that we can only speculate as to what that would look like and where they would take their inspiration from.

They have literally said they overreacted to feedback and made the game too simple and unexciting. Yoshi P has said the current direction of the game makes him fall asleep while playing.

And I'm sorry, but it is absolutely rose-tinted glasses. I'm very confident that a majority of the playerbase, if given the choice, would prefer the game in its current iteration over HW. I could absolutely see an argument for some aspects of StB, but there were issues there that I would not like to see repeated.

Do you care to repeat another circlejerk crowd-pleasing non-argument? And I am once again proven right like the seer I am:

but it's much harder for people to justify why the positive aspects of the previous expansions cannot be brought back into modern FF14. It's so hard that nobody ever tries to tackle it and resort to the lazy attempt to dismiss everything as nostalgia.

Maybe it takes 160 IQ for modern homo sapiens to understand how to separate the good from the bad of an expansion.

Maybe it also takes 160 IQ to understand that people don't have nostalgia for shitty netcode or having to wait 7 minutes after wiping for Hallowed Ground or having to wait 4 minutes for the Astrologian to roll double ExpBal for an opti run. They liked the good old days for other reasons.

[RhodesToRome]

They have literally said they overreacted to feedback and made the game too simple and unexciting. Yoshi P has said the current direction of the game makes him fall asleep while playing.

Maybe it takes 160 IQ for modern homo sapiens to understand how to separate the good from the bad of an expansion.

That doesn't refute my point at all about us not knowing what that new direction would look like. Saying they're not a fan of the now does not mean they're going back to try and recapture how it was. But yes, please continue to condescend and think that you have a third eye that can see all.

[Kayokane]

Maybe it also takes 160 IQ to understand that people don't have nostalgia for shitty netcode or having to wait 7 minutes after wiping for Hallowed Ground or having to wait 4 minutes for the Astrologian to roll double ExpBal for an opti run. They liked the good old days for other reasons.

Don't forget that the reason they wiped with Hallowed Ground on Cooldown is because the PLD died during the Hallowed Ground animation, just before the invuln effect applied, and, It. Is. Still. On. Cooldown. Always 'fun' to see, even though I was only playing casual at the time.