#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[ty_taurus]

I think your opinion was conveyed to the JP users almost without misunderstanding.
There were relatively many people who pressed the GOOD button on the "I thought SGE was going to be the healer's GNB..." content.
If there is one thing we can say, it is that the phrase "green dps" may have provoked some unfortunate people to react without reading the part describing its meaning.
But most people got the meaning, and I think it would be wonderful if I could combine dps and healing.

Ah, I understand. I am sorry for any confusion. But thank you for letting me know. I'm glad we're getting a chance to learn more about each other's thoughts and feelings.

[Nanananami773]

あのさん, 今度はヒ一ラーのデサインを本当にいいのか？

いいですはなら何故して,

私日本語の程度はただN3わ, 気分悪いなって申し訳ありません、

The current healer will be designed so that people who are just starting out, very casual players, can easily understand what they are doing and accept it rather easily.
I think its a good point.
Of course, not everything is good, and I feel obliged to say that the part that is aimed at the core players, the part that you ENs are appealing to here, is not good enough (just my personal opinion).

My English is also poor, so I apologize.

[MisterNublet]

pld will simply replace war's position, at least on normal dungeons
you don't even need to use clemency with 1t3d

(of course early dungeons in ew is... likely harder to do without it, but eh)



do not worry most of us even outside jp forums will think english people are very funny people, its just usual (half /s)

English people are indeed funny people. I tend to find it more intriguing to see how JP truly feels when they use their anonymous platforms to express themselves and their thoughts.

[Jeeqbit]

This is a silly thread. Everybody is saying "If you just make it how I personally like it, it'll be fixed" and these same people probably never played current AST

I don't think it's necessarily about changing healers. It's just about how a Warrior can survive a double pull on their own. The packs could, collectively, do more damage. And the amount of self-heal potency on Warrior seems excessive.

That said, as you mentioned, AST feels a whole lot more interesting than playing the other healers. My attack/damage buffs include: card buffs, macrocosmos, lord of crowns, divination, astrodyne, lightspeed, earthly star, the standard DoT, spamming my attack button, did I mention card buffs because that comes up a lot and sometimes need redrawing?

Comparatively, the other healers are more just spam 1 attack and manage DoT. A haste buff on WHM and Energy Drain spam on SCH with a rare Chain Strategem. That looks like it'll be a little better in Dawntrail though, but we'll see.

[Rehayem]

The current healer will be designed so that people who are just starting out, very casual players, can easily understand what they are doing and accept it rather easily.
I think its a good point.
Of course, not everything is good, and I feel obliged to say that the part that is aimed at the core players, the part that you ENs are appealing to here, is not good enough (just my personal opinion).

My English is also poor, so I apologize.

It's perfectly fine if healers are easy on early levels, but should they be this easy and boring at max level? I don't think so. This game needs different levels of challenge, right now there's nothing that allows healers to heal more. It's not even about more DPS options - no - it's about having healers do more than just spam 1 button for 90% of the time.

Should MSQ dungeons be easy? I think it's fine because it's about progressing the story, however, we have Duty Support, should then everyone be punished with easy 1 button spam just because someone is scared? Or because they want to feel "relaxed"? Currently what's missing is the "middle ground", not even Savage is fun because it's still the 1 button spam 90% of the time.

I understand JP playerbase thinks the way healers work now is fine, which is why I'm aware Yoshi-P will ignore this feedback -- because JP playerbase is fine with this. JP community thinks SE caters to Western audience when in fact this is not so -- my experiences playing Asian MMORPGs (especially Korean) has shown that developers have bias towards their own region, ignoring the Western audience completely (example: Aion, TERA, etc). Square Enix is not an exception, and will most likely, in majority of the time, listen only to Japanese playerbase.

[Nanananami773]

I honestly wish I could read all the submissions, but I am afraid that my ability and time are severely limited.
My experience here has been very interesting and I would recommend it to other JP players, but with your enthusiasm, there are too many posts and it takes up other people's time...

I didn't expect to even experience Godwin's Law here lol.

[ty_taurus]

Agreed completely.

Unfortunately, this thread has had problems from the start. From the first day it has featured exaggerations, booming echo-chamber "us vs them" tribalism, countless alts spamming upvotes or posting for the first time ever to give the appearance of mass appeal, rampant hostility toward anyone expressing any disagreement, even hostility towards curious people just asking questions to understand what was happening or what the aims were. . .

I too asked a basic question a few days ago and someone bit my head off about it while lumping me in as essentially "the enemy" or a troll without even checking my post history nor even bothering to ask for my own feelings on the actual healing issue.

It's been mob mentality in here, and such attracts more hatred and derision, taking attention away from the topic itself and placing it instead on the sheer rudeness and bile that is coming out of this thread. Now we've even reached the point where posters are espousing ethnocentrism and anti-Asian stereotypes, which is shameful.

Why should any independent thinker wish to associated with this at this point, given what it and this thread quickly devolved into, despite perhaps agreeing wholeheartedly with the actual issue: healer gameplay. Is it worth the appearance of tying oneself to hostile racists, trolls, and lunatics? Because that's how an observer of this thread will see it. If anything, this may well end with causing more damage to the likelihood of legitimate concerns being addressed.

See, I feel the opposite. I feel like most of the time when someone disagrees, they come in and are immediately rude and disrespectful about it. Not everyone, but an alarmingly high amount of people and are intentionally very antagonistic. Perhaps the experience you're talking about is you got swept away in that because there was already tension in the air. I won't justify that if that's the case, because that's not right either.

I don't know what confrontation you're referring to, so I would initially want to see what is it that you said originally. Was it actually more antagonistic than you thought it was? Is there any reason someone might take it as confrontational? Who responded to you? Does their response seem justified, or are they overreacting and/or being hateful about it? Is their response "biting your head off" or not? I'm not suggesting that you're lying about it. I'm just saying I haven't seen the conflict, so I can't really speak to what I think happened.

As someone who's been trying to give feedback since before Shadowbringers, it's tiring, and I constantly feel like people who don't see the issues I do are constantly against me. Now, coming into a space like this where a lot of people are barging in guns blazing, I can understand why it's difficult to be patient with disagreements, and I can see how if there are innocent disagreements, how those could get lashed out at unintentionally.

I would just like to see more consistent civility here on both sides, but if there's someone who comes in, weapons drawn, there will naturally be backlash to it.

[Galvuu]

I honestly wish I could read all the submissions, but I am afraid that my ability and time are severely limited.
My experience here has been very interesting and I would recommend it to other JP players, but with your enthusiasm, there are too many posts and it takes up other people's time...

I didn't expect to even experience Godwin's Law here lol.

If nothing else, this exchange with the JP playerbase has been very interesting and very informative for the EN side (I think that's a sentiment most share).
I am thankful for your efforts and glad you shared the opinion of some of the JP side.
Thank you for your efforts!

[ForsakenRoe]

Hello again.
I posted what I noticed from yesterday's communication in my own way on the Japanese forum, and received some responses.
The first thing they are thinking about is what kind of player base you guys are thinking about; there is a huge difference from very casual players to those playing high difficulty contents.

Many people seem to think that if you care about casual users, it is not a good idea to overburden them with healers.
Also, some players who play mainly using PT finder and CF have never thought it was boring; adding that they can understand your opinion because when PT members are good enough and there was no need for extra heals, it is monotonous to play just throwing stones (Before 4.x, WHM was called "stone throwing machine" by some).
Some Japanese players also came to recognize that there were problems not only in tank and DPS skills, but also in content design, and some expressed that they thought this way when told.

Simply hearing "HEALERSTRIKE" or "STOP 11111" will lead to miscommunication, as some misunderstood the opinions and some came to believe that the movement was too radical.
However, if we specifically explain the problems with the content and the healing ability of T,D, JP players may gradually understand the true meaning.

Some users were surprised that the discussion in the EN forum was more heated than they had imagined, while others said that they had "seen similar discussions before (around 5.x?)."
One thing I would like to mention is that many Japanese users think that the posts of people who come to JP forums using translation tools seem very belligerent.
Depending on which translation tool you use, the impression you get is totally different depending on whether you use polite expressions peculiar to Japanese or not.
I don't want EN and JP to become enemies because of this (and probably you don't either).
If you ever come to JP's message boards, please be careful to use gentle expressions.

Hello, and thank you for reaching out to EN side of forums!

I am a player who is, like most in this thread, not very satisfied with healer gameplay. I have taken Yoshi-P's advice of 'trying Ultimates' to find fun with Healer, but the problem is that it's only fun while 'learning', or doing 'progression', once the fight is learned completely it returns to the same gameplay that I dislike, pressing the main spell over and over. I understand that JP's stance on the matter is one of prioritizing 'smoothness of gameplay', that it's better this way to reduce chance of wipes in IDs, allowing everyone to get their daily tasks done much easier. And for the most part, I do agree that the 'smoothness' is important for those players. But, I feel that there can be a 'choice' in the job actions, so that I can choose to have a harder time doing an ID, and a player who wants the current 'smoothness' can still do so and perform almost identically as well.

When we discuss Healer jobs in EN, and the monotony of using the same one attack over and over, one big point that comes up again and again is the Tanks. Their role is to hold Emnity on the enemy and mitigate damage to themselves, mainly, yet they get to have a fun rotation for dealing damage. They get to have Ability-type actions to weave into their rotation quite frequently (for example Upheaval, or Blasting Zone). They get Gauges which allow for 'builder-spender' gameplay, building up to a big attack with their basic moves, like a WAR will use Storm's Path to build Gauge to get to the very fun 'Fell Cleave'. They get to, effectively, be a 'mini DPS' for their rotation when they don't need to do their primary job of 'taking and mitigating damage'. Healers, though, despite also being 'not a DPS' just like a Tank, are told to use the same attack button over and over, if we want to contribute damage. It does not seem very 'fair' or 'balanced' that, despite both roles being 'not the DPS', one gets to have a much more intricate rotation than the other. I understand the JP playerbase's desire to keep things stress-free for the Healer, to reduce the chance of a wipe in IDs, but I believe there is ways to increase Healer rotation depth to roughly equal to that of Tanks, while keeping the Healing portion of Healer very easy to access. Additionally, the Tanks have a difficulty scale, with many believing that WAR is easier and GNB is harder, for example. I would like to see the Healers damage rotation be made roughly equal in complexity to the WAR. This could be done in multiple ways.

I have personally written posts which ask for small adjustments to how we deal damage as a healer, intending to keep the 'smoothness' available, but adding optional complexity for those who want to push their gameplay a bit further. For example, if I were to redesign WHM, I would reduce the Damage over Time duration to 12 seconds, and add a new button called Banish, which has a 15s CD and is a tiny bit stronger than our current main spell, Glare. Because of the small damage difference, a player could just ignore Banish completely and be relatively unaffected. They would not cause an 'enrage timer' issue, because of not using the spell, because the damage difference is purposely made to be so small, it does not cause 'friction' between players if the healer opts not to use it. I made a video a long time ago, which demonstrates this idea's rotation. The same principles would be applied to SCH, AST and SGE, where they would have 'optional complexity' for the players to make use of, and the potencies tuned so that ignoring these extra buttons would not cause issues for players. Then, I would also add a new spell that costs a Lily, and applies a Barrier to the party. I do not think the 'Pure/Barrier split' has worked, and rather than try to force it to work, I would rather just remove it and let all four healers have a 'sliding scale' amount of Pure and Barrier capability. If a Healer is very good at Pure healing, it should be weaker at Barrier healing, but still capable of some Barrier healing. and the opposite for the other end of the spectrum. Finally, I would add a new Gauge which fills when casting Damage or Healing spells. And once you get 50 of this Gauge, you would be able to spend it on a very powerful healing spell. This spell would also grant 3 Elemental buffs, which would turn Glare, Dia, and the new Banish, into Quake, Tornado and Flood respectively. This would increase the potencies in such a way that would make the healing spell 'damage neutral'. By doing this and adding '50% damage reduced to secondary targets', adding just 2 buttons to the hotbar, the AOE rotation in IDs goes from 1 button (Holy) to 5 (Holy, Heal move, Quake, Flood, Tornado). And if we were to have Cure upgrade to Cure 2, and Medica to Medica 2, we can save 2 hotbar spaces.

Another example is SCH. I would like to add two Damage Over Time effects we had in previous expansions, Miasma and Shadowflare. By tuning the potencies of these Damage over Time effects, we can reduce the 'punishment' of a player who forgets to use them on time, or refreshes them early by accident. This would give the two healers (WHM and SCH) different gameplay, where WHM is more 'burst focused', and SCH is more 'sustained damage over time' focused. Then, we could make AST have a bigger focus on using its Cards more often, and SGE could be made to be very unique because of Kardia. For example, if some of the abilities were reworked to function like Soteria, wherein the effect of Kardia is buffed for a duration. But I would also like to see a fast paced gameplay for SGE, I look at Reaper and it's fast burst window and think SGE could have one too. Something like '1 - 2 - 1 - 2 - big finisher laser'. And of course this would synergise with the Kardia effects.

Effectively, I (and many others in EN I believe) would like to go back to Stormblood design for Healer jobs. Where we had 'smoothness' added like removing Cleric Stance, and making Healer Damage spells scale based on Mind stat instead of Intelligence, but we still had several ways to deal damage. WHM had Aero 3, Aero 2 and Stone. SCH had Bio 2, Miasma, Shadowflare, Miasma 2, Bane to help spread the Damage over Time effects, etc. AST had Cards with unique effects, and ways to manipulate them such as Royal Road to enhance the next card drawn, Time Dilation and Celestial Opposition to extend their durations, etc. Shadowbringers removed a lot of things in the pursuit of 'smoothness', and a lot of people in EN would say 'too much was removed'. It did some good things, like WHM Lilies were made much more functional in Shadowbringers, but for the most part, in my opinion Stormblood had the better design. I remember Yoshi-P saying in a PLL before Endwalker released that 'we will not go back to 3.0!' and I agree with that, but with so many being unsatisfied by 5.0 and 6.0 Healers, I think that we should look at 4.0 Healer and what made it work so well, and try to bring some of that back.

Thank you for reading

[Nanananami773]

Should MSQ dungeons be easy? I think it's fine because it's about progressing the story, however, we have Duty Support, should then everyone be punished with easy 1 button spam just because someone is scared? Or because they want to feel "relaxed"? Currently what's missing is the "middle ground", not even Savage is fun because it's still the 1 button spam 90% of the time.

I think you are right about the 1-button spam punishment, the middle ground missing.
Those are words I had been thinking about but could not verbalize well, and it was great to be able to encounter this kind of response (different languages have different thought outputs, so it is interesting to notice new things).

I understand JP playerbase thinks the way healers work now is fine, which is why I'm aware Yoshi-P will ignore this feedback -- because JP playerbase is fine with this. JP community thinks SE caters to Western audience when in fact this is not so -- my experiences playing Asian MMORPGs (especially Korean) has shown that developers have bias towards their own region, ignoring the Western audience completely (example: Aion, TERA, etc). Square Enix is not an exception, and will most likely, in majority of the time, listen only to Japanese playerbase.

I knew EN players would say this.
But JP players often say that the development team only listens to requests from overseas and rarely receives FB from Japan.
Today alone, several of them said this lol.

There is a saying in Japan, "The grass looks beautiful green in the neighbor's house".
They also said that this is exactly the situation right now.