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  1. #971
    Player
    Turtledeluxe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2023
    Posts
    1,232
    Character
    Kinda Hungry
    World
    Siren
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 100
    For the people asking about YouTube coverage...do you mean videos like this one?

    https://youtu.be/NI5owenBFcM?si=F6pyjRWNv-3MnQKe

    The one where Zepla concedes that the state of the game and healers are "sad" and that she wishes it was different. She suggests finding the fun in healing by doing mentor roulette.

    "It's actually faster that way...just bring a WAR and 3 dps...you'll finish (the dungeon) way faster. That's the meta. You don't even need healers. It's actually worse with healers."
    (8)
    Last edited by Turtledeluxe; 06-12-2024 at 03:28 AM.

  2. #972
    Player
    Galvuu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    637
    Character
    Galveira Vorfeed
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Pictomancer Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Nanananami773 View Post
    Thanks for sharing your specific story.
    I doubt that I understood all the details, but I think I understand what you are mainly trying to describe.
    I see that the real meaning of asking the healer not to make the healer's action 111111 was not that he wanted it to be 123123 (1-3 are attacks), but that he wanted Eukrasia + Diagnosis/Prognosis to be used more effectively.
    At the end of the day, I think healers just want to have a bit more to do in combat/have more meaningful decisions. It can be by using their heal/shield gcds more meaningfully, or maybe by having more damage buttons to use when they're not healing. Or both.
    But right now, they don't have either, so it just becomes 11111 90% of the time...
    JP posts are always welcome, don't worry about machine translation

    (Western players also tend to think all roles should be exciting- not "exciting dps/simple healers")
    (23)

  3. #973
    Player
    Nanananami773's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Posts
    1,874
    Character
    Nanami Nanananami
    World
    Atomos
    Main Class
    Botanist Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by OliviaLugria View Post
    Welcome! Do your best and we'll do ours to converse productively!

    Healer can be very fun an exciting, but it relies on your party being weak or inexperienced in a fight.

    In casual content, healer becomes a job only using 3-4 skills when they have over 20! Even at level 90 we are still playing like we are in satasha. This is why many suggest adding more dps buttons. It allows more engagement during the times healing is not needed, which is a large majority of the game's content!

    I don't necessarily want to see more healing in fights because it doesn't fix all the old content that didn't need the healing. Nothing in the game will prepare you for those increased requirements either. I would be excited to see content change in this way, but I'd would rather they make changes that make the healer role exciting in all forms of content without hurting the other roles.
    I can very much understand the feeling of a healer perceiving a lvl 90 ID as a Sastasha lol
    I too wish that the healer's gaming experience would be more exciting.
    (12)

  4. #974
    Player
    PercibelTheren's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2023
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    1,026
    Character
    Percibel Theren
    World
    Zodiark
    Main Class
    Astrologian Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Aword3213 View Post
    Meanwhile DPS fail dps checks all the time, why didn't healer get 1500 potency OGCD per 15 seconds to compansate?

    Tanks don't mitigate properly all the time, even in high end contents. Why shouldn't healers get to have skills that provokes the target, and, at the same time, quadruple our hp and grant 50% mitigation on 60s cooldown to compansate?
    This is something that irks me, tbh - the unfairness of it all. Only healers get punished for some people being bad at the role. Bad tanks straight up get carried by good healers in the vast majority of content. If the DPS don't do their jobs properly and the boss enrages, nobody makes a big deal out of that, either. Why are healers singled out like this?
    (11)

  5. #975
    Player
    Nanananami773's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Posts
    1,874
    Character
    Nanami Nanananami
    World
    Atomos
    Main Class
    Botanist Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Galvuu View Post
    At the end of the day, I think healers just want to have a bit more to do in combat/have more meaningful decisions. It can be by using their heal/shield gcds more meaningfully, or maybe by having more damage buttons to use when they're not healing. Or both.
    But right now, they don't have either, so it just becomes 11111 90% of the time...
    JP posts are always welcome, don't worry about machine translation

    (Western players also tend to think all roles should be exciting- not "exciting dps/simple healers")
    all roles should be exciting ;I really agree with you.
    I don't know which is preferable, the GCD heal or the other damage button, but I would definitely be happy to spend more time on 11111 and do more of my own actions to make a positive change in the game.
    (4)

  6. #976
    Player
    UnconfirmedCat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    28
    Character
    Miau Miau
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Fisher Lv 90
    it's that ez

    (20)

  7. #977
    Player
    Menriq's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    583
    Character
    Meridia Astra
    World
    Maduin
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by PercibelTheren View Post
    This is something that irks me, tbh - the unfairness of it all. Only healers get punished for some people being bad at the role. Bad tanks straight up get carried by good healers in the vast majority of content. If the DPS don't do their jobs properly and the boss enrages, nobody makes a big deal out of that, either. Why are healers singled out like this?
    This is answered in a whole separate topic, but the bolded part does happen.
    (0)

  8. #978
    Player
    Loggos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    1,003
    Character
    Kaeya Alberich
    World
    Twintania
    Main Class
    Pictomancer Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Nanananami773 View Post
    Am I correct in understanding that the problem was not only about the way the healer attacked, but also about the skills that the tank.dps had and the balance between them?
    Hi! Thank you for joining the discussion.

    Yes. As other people said, there is not enough incoming damage.
    As a result there is a lot of "downtime". In that downtime we can only press 1111111.
    DPS don't really have this ""downtime". They can always use their full DPS kit. But because of the low damage, and the high mitigation/healing tools of tanks and DPS, healers are often barred from using their whole kit. After all it doesn't make sense to heal when everybody has full HP.

    Players on the English forum ask for more DPS skills as a "practical solution", not necessarily an "optimal one":

    SE has a specific philosophy for their fight design (scripted fights, many movement-based mechanics, rather long intervals between enemy AoE or tank buster attacks.)

    In an ideal scenario they could change that philosophy: higher damage, more frequent enemy attakcs (AoE, tank busters, etc.) and perhaps more random enemy attacks.

    But most people on the English forum don't think SE will change their philosophy.

    (And also, even if they changed their design principles for future fights, they cannot change all the old fights and dungeons. As a result, only the new fights and dungeons would be interesting. The older fights and dungeons would still be rather boring to heal.)

    So as an alternative, players suggest more DPS options for healers to fill those "downtime" intervals betweeen enemy attacks.

    If SE does not want to change their encounter design, then we wish that they at least give us more DPS. We really just want more to do.

    (Though to be fair: Some players also like the idea of a "DPS healer" as an optimal solution. I think this is a legitimate wish as well and can be fun. But of course "DPS healer" and "pure healer" are a matter of taste and of course not everyone's taste will be addressed.

    As long as we get something to do instead of pressing 111111 90% of the time it would be a good compromise I think.)
    (18)
    Last edited by Loggos; 06-12-2024 at 03:47 AM.

  9. #979
    Player
    EusisLandale's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    564
    Character
    Eira Landale
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Nanananami773 View Post
    all roles should be exciting ;I really agree with you.
    I don't know which is preferable, the GCD heal or the other damage button, but I would definitely be happy to spend more time on 11111 and do more of my own actions to make a positive change in the game.
    Ideally, to fix the problem, they would do both. In order to do that though, they first absolutely need to lower non-healer self healing capabilities to only what is necessary in solo content.
    Some healers get a strong oGCD ability healing kit, while the GCD kit remains simple, and have relatively intricate damaging options. Something like Scholar back when it had to juggle a bunch of DOTs for example.
    Some healers get a weak oGCD ability healing kit, and retain the 11111 and dot damage kit, but have a wider array of GDC healing options to handle the situations that come up.
    (11)
    Last edited by EusisLandale; 06-12-2024 at 03:57 AM.

  10. #980
    Player
    Evergrey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    2,021
    Character
    Rexipher Evergrey
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Loggos View Post
    Some players also like the idea of a "DPS healer" as an optimal solution.
    What ever happened to the stance that let Healers have a higher damage output?
    I can't remember if it was simply removed or if the buff from that stance was simply added to the healer toolkit.
    (0)
    Last edited by Evergrey; 06-12-2024 at 04:03 AM. Reason: spelling error x2

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