#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[EusisLandale]

Am I correct in understanding that the problem was not only about the way the healer attacked, but also about the skills that the tank.dps had and the balance between them?

This would be correct. We are given more and more tools for healing, but we almost never need to heal because the enemy's damage isn't keeping up with the fact that everyone is healing themselves. We are given an abundance of free time, but nothing to do in it.

[Loggos]

Am I correct in understanding that the problem was not only about the way the healer attacked, but also about the skills that the tank.dps had and the balance between them?

Hi! Thank you for joining the discussion.

Yes. As other people said, there is not enough incoming damage.
As a result there is a lot of "downtime". In that downtime we can only press 1111111.
DPS don't really have this ""downtime". They can always use their full DPS kit. But because of the low damage, and the high mitigation/healing tools of tanks and DPS, healers are often barred from using their whole kit. After all it doesn't make sense to heal when everybody has full HP.

Players on the English forum ask for more DPS skills as a "practical solution", not necessarily an "optimal one":

SE has a specific philosophy for their fight design (scripted fights, many movement-based mechanics, rather long intervals between enemy AoE or tank buster attacks.)

In an ideal scenario they could change that philosophy: higher damage, more frequent enemy attakcs (AoE, tank busters, etc.) and perhaps more random enemy attacks.

But most people on the English forum don't think SE will change their philosophy.

(And also, even if they changed their design principles for future fights, they cannot change all the old fights and dungeons. As a result, only the new fights and dungeons would be interesting. The older fights and dungeons would still be rather boring to heal.)

So as an alternative, players suggest more DPS options for healers to fill those "downtime" intervals betweeen enemy attacks.

If SE does not want to change their encounter design, then we wish that they at least give us more DPS. We really just want more to do.

(Though to be fair: Some players also like the idea of a "DPS healer" as an optimal solution. I think this is a legitimate wish as well and can be fun. But of course "DPS healer" and "pure healer" are a matter of taste and of course not everyone's taste will be addressed.

As long as we get something to do instead of pressing 111111 90% of the time it would be a good compromise I think.)

[Evergrey]

Some players also like the idea of a "DPS healer" as an optimal solution.

What ever happened to the stance that let Healers have a higher damage output?
I can't remember if it was simply removed or if the buff from that stance was simply added to the healer toolkit.

[Reinha]

Am I correct in understanding that the problem was not only about the way the healer attacked, but also about the skills that the tank.dps had and the balance between them?

Yes. Those two are the main problems. We want at least one problem fixed. If both get fixed, that would be even better.

If healers had 5-10 damage buttons, it would be more interesting to play most content as a healer now that there isn't much need to heal.

Or if healers kept the same damage buttons but there were more opportunities to heal, we would get to actually use all the healing spells we have and not be pressing the same damage spell repeatedly. Tank and dps jobs would need their heals nerfed or removed so that they can't heal all the damage.

[Evergrey]

Yes. Those two are the main problems. We want at least one problem fixed. If both get fixed, that would be even better.

If healers had 5-10 damage buttons, it would be more interesting to play most content as a healer now that there isn't much need to heal.

Or if healers kept the same damage buttons but there were more opportunities to heal, we would get to actually use all the healing spells we have and not be pressing the same damage spell repeatedly. Tank and dps jobs would need their heals nerfed or removed so that they can't heal all the damage.

Imagine if it was like D&D, or other RPG's, where Holy Spells damage Undead creatures.
Not that there's enough Undead creatures in FFXIV to make a healers toolkit interesting to use in a fight.
But maybe have some kind of effect that if using a healing on an enemy it could either damage or debuff them, supporting the group that way.
Different healing spells could apply different debuffs/damage.
Not only would that give the healers more to do during a fight. But it would also make it so the healers might have to think "Should I hit this enemy or do I have to save the Cooldown incase the tank doesn't avoid the Buster?".

[LyraShu]

Hello, I am from the Japanese community.
I use a translation tool so sorry if my English is poor.
There was a post in the Japan forum informing me about this thread and I learned of this shocking move.

First of all, I would like to state that these are my personal thoughts and not the consensus of the Japanese community.
I'm sorry that I may not be able to reply very often, as I really need to use a translation tool to communicate with you.


Regarding the issue of healers' attack rotation being too monotonous, Japanese players' reaction is quite different from yours.
Almost no one has a problem with the attack rotation.
I don't know why they think differently than you do, but one opinion I sometimes see is “if you want to attack, just play DPS”.
I don't recall seeing a more specific discussion in the Japanese forum than this opinion.

Unfortunately, your opinion will not be accepted in the Japanese forum.
But I am not going to disagree with you guys.
I usually play mainly as a healer in Extreme and Savage (etc.), but I also play as a DPS or tank if I want something different and exciting.
When pointed out to me, I have a feeling that this “when I want a different excitement” may stem from the fact that the healer's attacks are too simple, and I feel it when I get tired of them.
However, I myself do not see the need to change anything about the attack spells.
I may need some more time to think about it.

For now, I will just be very curious about the differences in opinion between the Japanese and English communities and will keep an eye on what happens in the future.
Thank you.

Ok, so there is a lot of opinions around but please allow me to offer mine as well.

I don't think that it is really about "Give us more attacks". Please allow me to give an example -

When I started this game, it was in November of this last year. I started going for the SMN role because that excited me. After time, I learned of the SGE role and I started to make that my new focus past the MSQ. Progressing as a SMN was great, though I imagine doing solo content as DPS would help out. Once I got to EW, I unlocked SGE and started my journey.

So first of all, it WAS hard for me to get into. There was a lot of buttons, abilities, things changed when I pressed other buttons. Not "complicated" but it was also a lot to learn. After reading abilities and tooltips, for some reason I ended up deciding that doing Eukrasia + Diagnosis/Prognosis as pretty much my main and only healing+mit abilities that I used for pretty much the rest of EW. This is my issue, I should have been PUNISHED or at least made aware that I wasn't doing a good job. . .but instead everyone else has abilities and mits that essentially made my job invalid so it wasn't like it mattered. I could have spammed sprint for the whole duration of the dungeon and probably contributed just as much. I didn't even know I wasn't doing much until a friend, that also plays SGE, asked me why I wasn't hitting certain buttons. My response, "oh, I didn't think it did much anyway".

All of this isn't to say that we don't have abilities that heal or that we can't do a alright job with it....but why do you need to heal someone that already has their own self heal ability going? I mean, at that point you are just overhealing, right? From what I know about MMO's, that's essentially bad and wasting resources?

I think with the DPS side of things, the meta is to have your "ABC's" going at all times. Always Be Casting. The worked in ability for that with healers is your 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 (eventually dot) 1 1 1 1. . .until it becomes time to do maybe a healy thing and then keep rotating. I think people are saying with this "look SE, if you want me to always be casting please make it interesting at least".

I've talked about this before also, but hellz, I didn't even know esuna was actually important until I wiped a raid. I mean, never like it mattered before, right?. . .it's that kind of stuff that just drives me up a wall sometimes. Its partly because I AM a casual but I mean....there is like 10 dungeons (wrong number I'm sure) that esuna actually matters?

**I hope translator works well in reverse I am sorry I cannot give you the same curtesy**

[Evergrey]

All of this isn't to say that we don't have abilities that heal or that we can't do a alright job with it....but why do you need to heal someone that already has their own self heal ability going? I mean, at that point you are just overhealing, right? From what I know about MMO's, that's essentially bad and wasting resources?

I think with the DPS side of things, the meta is to have your "ABC's" going at all times. Always Be Casting. The worked in ability for that with healers is your 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 (eventually dot) 1 1 1 1. . .until it becomes time to do maybe a healy thing and then keep rotating. I think people are saying with this "look SE, if you want me to always be casting please make it interesting at least".

This has me thinking when you mentioned overhealing and the ABC's.
From what I can tell during dungeons, is that it's pretty much only in a fresh wall-to-wall pull where a healer will be healing more due to the sheer amount of mobs hitting the tank.
Every other encounter besides that is a cakewalk, even if a healer dies during a boss fight the tank can keep themselves alive and take down the boss.

So what I think, and have been thinking for quite some time, is that the content itself is too easy.
If even a boss isn't enough to kill a tank without a healer around then isn't there something wrong?
In other games during a bossfight, if a healer isn't around the tank will drop within the first 10-30 seconds.
Even the trashmobs could kill a tank if not getting healed, and then it's not even a wall-to-wall pull but simply each encounter.

I think that SE needs to up the mobs damage output in general.
That would make it so healers will have more to heal automatically.
But seeing how SE has been nerfing content because there's been players who's been complaining how things are "too hard", I doubt we'll ever see enemies get a damage boost.
So personally I would say that it's on the players who's made it so SE have made the FFXIV content easier so that 'everyone' can play it comfortably.
Some players simply don't want to, or can't face harder content and gets discouraged to continue.
And for a MMO that lives on its players, they don't want players to quit so ofc they'll make the content easier so everyone can play.

[Nanananami773]

Ok, so there is a lot of opinions around but please allow me to offer mine as well.

I don't think that it is really about "Give us more attacks". Please allow me to give an example -

When I started this game, it was in November of this last year. I started going for the SMN role because that excited me. After time, I learned of the SGE role and I started to make that my new focus past the MSQ. Progressing as a SMN was great, though I imagine doing solo content as DPS would help out. Once I got to EW, I unlocked SGE and started my journey.

So first of all, it WAS hard for me to get into. There was a lot of buttons, abilities, things changed when I pressed other buttons. Not "complicated" but it was also a lot to learn. After reading abilities and tooltips, for some reason I ended up deciding that doing Eukrasia + Diagnosis/Prognosis as pretty much my main and only healing+mit abilities that I used for pretty much the rest of EW. This is my issue, I should have been PUNISHED or at least made aware that I wasn't doing a good job. . .but instead everyone else has abilities and mits that essentially made my job invalid so it wasn't like it mattered. I could have spammed sprint for the whole duration of the dungeon and probably contributed just as much. I didn't even know I wasn't doing much until a friend, that also plays SGE, asked me why I wasn't hitting certain buttons. My response, "oh, I didn't think it did much anyway".

All of this isn't to say that we don't have abilities that heal or that we can't do a alright job with it....but why do you need to heal someone that already has their own self heal ability going? I mean, at that point you are just overhealing, right? From what I know about MMO's, that's essentially bad and wasting resources?

I think with the DPS side of things, the meta is to have your "ABC's" going at all times. Always Be Casting. The worked in ability for that with healers is your 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 (eventually dot) 1 1 1 1. . .until it becomes time to do maybe a healy thing and then keep rotating. I think people are saying with this "look SE, if you want me to always be casting please make it interesting at least".

I've talked about this before also, but hellz, I didn't even know esuna was actually important until I wiped a raid. I mean, never like it mattered before, right?. . .it's that kind of stuff that just drives me up a wall sometimes. Its partly because I AM a casual but I mean....there is like 10 dungeons (wrong number I'm sure) that esuna actually matters?

Thanks for sharing your specific story.
I doubt that I understood all the details, but I think I understand what you are mainly trying to describe.
I see that the real meaning of asking the healer not to make the healer's action 111111 was not that he wanted it to be 123123 (1-3 are attacks), but that he wanted Eukrasia + Diagnosis/Prognosis to be used more effectively.

[Galvuu]

Thanks for sharing your specific story.
I doubt that I understood all the details, but I think I understand what you are mainly trying to describe.
I see that the real meaning of asking the healer not to make the healer's action 111111 was not that he wanted it to be 123123 (1-3 are attacks), but that he wanted Eukrasia + Diagnosis/Prognosis to be used more effectively.

At the end of the day, I think healers just want to have a bit more to do in combat/have more meaningful decisions. It can be by using their heal/shield gcds more meaningfully, or maybe by having more damage buttons to use when they're not healing. Or both.
But right now, they don't have either, so it just becomes 11111 90% of the time...
JP posts are always welcome, don't worry about machine translation

(Western players also tend to think all roles should be exciting- not "exciting dps/simple healers")

[Nanananami773]

At the end of the day, I think healers just want to have a bit more to do in combat/have more meaningful decisions. It can be by using their heal/shield gcds more meaningfully, or maybe by having more damage buttons to use when they're not healing. Or both.
But right now, they don't have either, so it just becomes 11111 90% of the time...
JP posts are always welcome, don't worry about machine translation

(Western players also tend to think all roles should be exciting- not "exciting dps/simple healers")

all roles should be exciting ;I really agree with you.
I don't know which is preferable, the GCD heal or the other damage button, but I would definitely be happy to spend more time on 11111 and do more of my own actions to make a positive change in the game.