Frontlines sucks Ultra megathread

[Scintilla]

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Read my post above: play with friends is not equal to playing a coordinated premade. It's the approach you take to the play which makes the difference.
Meanwhile a premade approach also forces people to play in a particular way (spend the entire game 2v1 the premade) because they want to do what they find enjoyable.
My choice only affects those who want to play as premade. The premade choice affects most (if not all) of the random players who join.

In the case of FL commanders able to coordinate randoms, I have no issue whatsoever. They're clearly good, strategic players who seem able to motivate their team and work to their abilities. They play a strong game, but not in a way which garners any sort of advantage from the outset: they learnt to command, for them to be listened to so well they must have a positive reputation amongst some or simply do well at getting player support. I have no issues at all with losing to a great team. My issue comes with premades completely shutting down the need for wider teamwork and forcing everyone into "premade yourself" and do so repeatedly (often accompanied with arrogance, but I know that claim cannot possibly be applied to all premades).

I don't play NA so I can't particularly comment on them. I do know of a few commanders having come across to EU servers recently and offering to lead (though where they came from I can't remember) and did struggle vs an average premade team. Though, of course, this may simply have been an unlucky game for them. It was in their apology that they mentioned being new to the DC and still getting used to differences. Sadly, I haven't yet had the opportunity to try the DC travel (thanks to work! ), but I would hope to soon.
If it's purely marking / burst countdowns / sounds, we get those here, albeit countdowns being not majorly common. So given your recommendation, I expect style of play there to be different in other ways. We shall see when I get the chance to go!

[Mawlzy]

If it's purely marking / burst countdowns / sounds, we get those here, albeit countdowns being not majorly common. So given your recommendation, I expect style of play there to be different in other ways. We shall see when I get the chance to go!

I look forward to your day-tripping to NA and your impressions of the game style. I break matches into four groups:

1. DRK+ premade commander takes aggressive control, uses a marker and frequent call-outs that typically include direction (objectives, when to retreat), LB countdowns. Basically follows the advice in Olivia's guide. Not sure if this is because such commanders are Olivia's alts/proteges or imitation. Produces a high win-rate, while requiring little of the 20 randos. Mostly tedious.

2. Commander takes light control, with fewer call-outs. Tends to note the strategic situation rather than dragging the team around by its collective noses. If playing DRK, usually announces the dive, sometimes via countdown. Commander is either solo or apparently leading a less-coordinated (non-voice?) premade. Mostly enjoyable.

3. No single commander, but with a handful of people contributing to call-outs. May or may not include dive countdowns depending on comp. Enjoyable, occasionally great.

4. No commander, very few call-outs from anyone. Naturally generates the greatest variation of results, and is the most dependent on whether there is a premade and/or aggressive commander on an opposing team. Some of the best matches can come from this scenario, but they are honestly rare since it requires the majority of the players to be above-average. Against a strong premade can also rapidly deteriorate into a massacre. From awful to exceptional.

[Scintilla]

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It would be interesting to see how other DCs play and how well I adapt to differences in playstyle. Not sure how bad the latency would be, but I don't know until I try and I'll certainly give it my best effort!

Here, I've found that matches have improved a little recently, but still depends on how fortunate you are with your queues. At one point, premades were in practically in every game, with a couple of premades in particular becoming widely recognised for their obvious use of voice chat, use of DRK-RPR-DRG-DRG combo, and for being highly arrogant in games (responding to conflicting calls/team unrest in ways such as "Do you have a 90% win rate? No? Well I do, so shut up and do as I say"). Over time, this approach hasn't won them favour amongst many random players and, as a result, I see more and more negative responses aimed at them, both from their allies and opponents. More recently, I see those particular teams less often. Premades are still a common sight, but it doesn't compare to how the problem used to be (I hope I haven't jinxed it with that sentence!)

We have a few very good commanders who do well leading a random team to a win without being part of a premade themselves, and it is always very nice to see such teams. If we're lucky enough to have multiple good commanders with each one on different teams, it's going to be a very nice game.

General mixed / light team commanding is okay. I tend to find the teams to be overly cautious for my liking and more likely to avoid PvP unless necessary for objectives, but there is still the opportunity to PvP, so I wouldn't complain.

No commander. Could be great, could be dreadful. Usually the latter.

While it depends on the commander, markers are relatively common, marking ally DRKs / Healers and enemy DRKs.
Sound effects are very common.
Chat updates for Salted Earth CD tends to happen. Burst countdowns less so. They are used from time to time by some players, but I wouldn't say it's a common practice here in EU (not from my own experience, at least)

[Mawlzy]

While it depends on the commander, markers are relatively common, marking ally DRKs / Healers and enemy DRKs.
Sound effects are very common.
Chat updates for Salted Earth CD tends to happen. Burst countdowns less so. They are used from time to time by some players, but I wouldn't say it's a common practice here in EU (not from my own experience, at least)

Thanks for that. Overall seems fairly similar, but one area NA really falls down is marking key enemies. It's sufficiently rare I'm not sure it'd be understood correctly, but I'll make more of an effort with that. I drop markers on my team's DRKs pre-engage, and it's not uncommon for the markers to be removed. No idea why.

[Scintilla]

Thanks for that. Overall seems fairly similar, but one area NA really falls down is marking key enemies. It's sufficiently rare I'm not sure it'd be understood correctly, but I'll make more of an effort with that. I drop markers on my team's DRKs pre-engage, and it's not uncommon for the markers to be removed. No idea why.

Perhaps a dislike of too many markers? I suppose it can be more of a distraction if there's markers everywhere. Personally, I'll only mark our ally DRK and chain mark an enemy DRK who needs to be watched for - usually a premade DRK, along with a quick reminder in chat to look out for them on red/yellow/blue and to use Guard if unable to escape in time.

Not always useful with RPR in some premades, in which case I can only really try to go RPR myself and try to Hysteria to buy a little escape time... desperate times, desperate measures

[AnotherPerson]

It would be interesting to see how other DCs play and how well I adapt to differences in playstyle. Not sure how bad the latency would be, but I don't know until I try and I'll certainly give it my best effort!

Here, I've found that matches have improved a little recently, but still depends on how fortunate you are with your queues. At one point, premades were in practically in every game, with a couple of premades in particular becoming widely recognised for their obvious use of voice chat, use of DRK-RPR-DRG-DRG combo, and for being highly arrogant in games (responding to conflicting calls/team unrest in ways such as "Do you have a 90% win rate? No? Well I do, so shut up and do as I say"). Over time, this approach hasn't won them favour amongst many random players and, as a result, I see more and more negative responses aimed at them, both from their allies and opponents. More recently, I see those particular teams less often. Premades are still a common sight, but it doesn't compare to how the problem used to be (I hope I haven't jinxed it with that sentence!)

I have a feeling I know who you're talking about. This is an old screenshot, but I have a feeling you're talking about the players from Adders Team B.



I played with a EU alt against them, they're definitely skilled and very experienced players. Had a lot of fun matches against them when I'm cooking a new strategy with different jobs and notice their shenanigans (mind you I'm also solo). I won against them twice in a row and then they stopped queueing (probably due to timezone difference at the time). A shame, really. I had a lot of fun adapting to whatever type of strategy they came up with. Fighting against good players helped me improve on jobs I don't play much to develop a playstyle for them.

[Mawlzy]

That must've been a helluva match. I've never seen a DRK in a premade hit anything like 17/0/121 and lose! Congratz on thwarting them.

[Scintilla]

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Quite possibly. I wouldn't say that any premade setup is particularly 'skilled' (as mentioned in my previous posts) but I wouldn't doubt that they've spent a lot of time in FLs. We have had a few decent premades recently, but they don't seem quite as active as they were in the past, in which they appeared to be queuing for games for hours throughout the afternoon and evening - just typical that that was the point in which I was trying to get the Seal Rock coat on my alt, but I'll keep that grudge to myself
The k/a scores look fairly consistent with an average game of theirs.

It certainly poses a challenge and when I realise I'm playing against them my personal goal changes instantly from: win the game > stop them winning. From calling with early warnings and marking the DRK to trying classes I wouldn't normally play in PvP (like RPR) purely to try to hinder them as much as possible. Sadly, though, in such cases it ultimately requires a premade of your own or a 2v1 focus of both random alliances vs the premade to keep their score down to a level that the opportunity to win is open and balanced for all teams. Sometimes this does work (and I have noticed it happening a little more frequently now that these premades have become so widely recognised), but it only takes a single random alliance to not get the message and to continue with the game as if it were a normal match or to do worse and decide to help farm the other random alliance purely to get 2nd place for themselves, and this all falls to pieces.