Frontlines sucks Ultra megathread

[Bonoki]

Those saying "I want to raise the skill lvl of others" and yet being against separate queues for solo & premade tells you all you need to know-they aren't for anything but being able to steamroll randos, many of whom are "jUsT HeRe fOR ThE EXP luls". One of my biggest wishes for pvp is for them to remove the exp, every single mmo I've played that added exp to pvp ruined it because it brings in what I call lazy leeches, those who will either do just enough to avoid an afk removal or will intentionally run into the enemy over and over for "easy leveling exp".

PvP used to be this way and not offer any EXP. Back in those days PvP rarely ever popped even in prime time. Think how Rival Wings feels right now but for Frontlines as a whole. Without the casuals, PvP is just straight-up dead. There just weren't enough people interested to keep it rapidly popping. For better or for worse the "I'm just here for my exp, chill bro" crowd is the grand majority of those playing. Crystal Conflict aside as the lone exception, PvP in this game has never been popular in any version of it. Rewards control the state and flow of everything. Some are even arguing that the EXP already isn't enough to justify them playing.

[AriannaStormwake]

Those saying "I want to raise the skill lvl of others" and yet being against separate queues for solo & premade tells you all you need to know-they aren't for anything but being able to steamroll randos, many of whom are "jUsT HeRe fOR ThE EXP luls". One of my biggest wishes for pvp is for them to remove the exp, every single mmo I've played that added exp to pvp ruined it because it brings in what I call lazy leeches, those who will either do just enough to avoid an afk removal or will intentionally run into the enemy over and over for "easy leveling exp".

those lowscore third place people i get in my daily FL like doing this and i really hate it

[Mistress_Irika]

Those saying "I want to raise the skill lvl of others" and yet being against separate queues for solo & premade tells you all you need to know-they aren't for anything but being able to steamroll randos, many of whom are "jUsT HeRe fOR ThE EXP luls". One of my biggest wishes for pvp is for them to remove the exp, every single mmo I've played that added exp to pvp ruined it because it brings in what I call lazy leeches, those who will either do just enough to avoid an afk removal or will intentionally run into the enemy over and over for "easy leveling exp".

Whether it's casual or competitive there won't be enough premade groups to even get that queue popping regularly. Everyone will be forced to play solo (which is what a lot of people want in the first place).

It was slightly better back when we had the option to play on our chosen grand company. People actually tried as long as they didn't run into a premade. You may want to consider bringing back that option? or giving us the option to do frontline customs undersized. (Note: There is a question mark on the bringing back the GCs, because that ultimately causes queue time increase to the most popular GC. With frontlines not having the option for a smaller crowd size to play that option may be dead on arrival.)

[Mawlzy]

Whether it's casual or competitive there won't be enough premade groups to even get that queue popping regularly. Everyone will be forced to play solo (which is what a lot of people want in the first place).

It was slightly better back when we had the option to play on our chosen grand company. People actually tried as long as they didn't run into a premade. You may want to consider bringing back that option? or giving us the option to do frontline customs undersized. (Note: There is a question mark on the bringing back the GCs, because that ultimately causes queue time increase to the most popular GC. With frontlines not having the option for a smaller crowd size to play that option may be dead on arrival.)

Right, the problem isn't new.

I'm interested in whether people think 24v24v24 is the ideal size for FL given current skillsets. I suspect it's okay on the new Shatter since the amount of ground that needs to be covered during the small ice phase likely works better with a lot of people. But for the other two maps my guess is 16v16v16 would be more enjoyable. Fewer players might even maintain current queue times while reducing rewards, which as others have noted has some hope of separating the wheat from the chaff.

[OliviaLugria]

And you know better than most that the application of that power is far easier and more effective with a premade than with randos!!! Why else would your win-rate rocket from 40% to 55%? C'mon.

1. Watching Deneb calling a match and drastically changing how I called games.

2. Switching from predominately blackmage, Dragoon, and Red Mage to dark knight.

3. Improving my personal performance.

4. Keeping my map open at all times.

5. Being the first to optimize new shatter

6. The moogless tome event both incentiving winning and lowering the overall skill of the ques.

7. Started always running with a group.

8. Developed fame/infamy for winning consistently and without much contest.l further incentivizeing people to follow me.

9. Being basically the only caller using the method for an extended period of time.

10. Most regulars not enjoying the redesign and not queuing, leaving me with little competition.

Like, I'm not gonna say forming a group didn't help, but it was a flurry of fortuitous events happening at the same time.

It seems the people talking to you can't understand your point of view. So, perhaps place it in the entirety for your next post.

[Mawlzy]

I certainly have no idea what you're talking about since the above list has zero connection to what I've been discussing.

If you want the simplest tl;dr

I dislike playing with you and people who adopt your playstyle.

A point I made weeks ago, the reasons for which I've explained extensively.

[Scintilla]

I certainly have no idea what you're talking about since the above list has zero connection to what I've been discussing.

I presume the list was in response to your "Why else would your win-rate rocket" question. They're listing the factors (including a premade party - No.7) which they feel contributed to their increase in win-rate.


On a different note, the lack of any kind of progressive discussion in this thread is almost laughable, with the same points being repeated endlessly. Ultimately, it is a 'personal profit and efficiency vs cost to wider community' discussion, but one at the opposite end of scale to leeches.


Leeches solely value their time-reward ratio. They'll tend to go through the very basic motions of the game, but won't put in any effort to push for a win because their only interest is the reward at the end. This comes at a cost to the wider community, as they are now playing alongside a deadweight burden who will contribute little to nothing to the game. The slight comfort, though, is that these players will be present in every team and their existence doesn't directly hinder the other active players in their play (indirectly, yes, as these spots within the team are effectively 'wasted' and could be better filled with someone who actually wants to be there to contribute).

Premade teams solely value their win rate. They'll take advantage of personal friendships and connections and often voice chat to quickly establish full and unopposable control within random games because their only interest is to improve their personal win-rate. This comes at a cost to the wider community, as these random players now have the incredibly difficult job of somehow orchestrating their completely unknown team into seriously competing against a small group of players who have placed heavy reliance upon the assets available to them to form a premade and coordinated team. (I would add: the premades aren't capable of / aren't willing to bring about this level of coordination amongst random teams, hence why they formed their little premade in the first place. So why force this expectation upon a team of unsuspecting randoms, along with the message of 'git good' when they fail?)
There may be a few stubborn and driven individuals who will push to fight purely for the satisfaction of watching the premade lose. But, for the most part, this situation quickly pushes most into despair and defeatism and, ultimately, away from FLs.


For myself, PvP has already died in previous multiplayer games I enjoyed in the past because of the toxic, arrogant, and self-serving environment it has a habit of forming. So for me, the wider community and helping more into PvP is the priority. Unfortunately, however, the 'personal profit and efficiency' is the priority for far too many

[Mawlzy]

I presume the list was in response to your "Why else would your win-rate rocket" question. They're listing the factors (including a premade party - No.7) which they feel contributed to their increase in win-rate.


On a different note, the lack of any kind of progressive discussion in this thread is almost laughable, with the same points being repeated endlessly. Ultimately, it is a 'personal profit and efficiency vs cost to wider community' discussion, but one at the opposite end of scale to leeches.

I agree this has degenerated into pointless repetition and apologize for my part in that. It's the reason I didn't address "The List" in which only point 7 is relevant, since it would only compound the problem. I also agree completely with your other observations.

[OliviaLugria]

You're the one who asked :/

[Aravell]

I want to point out something, the tight coordination of a premade group can also be their greatest weakness.

If you're a very good player that understands the ebb and flow of FL combat, you alone can shut down a DRK premade if you play MNK. If you identify the exact moment that the DRK makes the order to dive, you can LB them and then knock them out of position, the RPR will already go in and expect a Salted Earth that will not come, so the RPR LB will scatter people even further out, which makes the DRG LB miss out on the center impact damage, it's a cascade of failures by the premade all by taking out the DRK that's meant to bring it all together.

I've tested this against several premades I know on Materia, so I know this method has a high chance of working. Of course, it's not easy to identify the exact moment you need to disable the DRK, which is why I said you can only do it if you're a very good player with good understanding of combat flow. But the rewards if you manage to pull it off is great, your team only needs to Recuperate once and then regroup to clean up all the ranged jobs that came in with the RPR expecting free kills.

Of course, you likely won't be killing the premade because the DRK will probably call their friends to get out as soon as they realise they've been knocked out of position, but you denied them a bunch of kills and you end up taking points from them by killing those players who don't know when to back out.