Can we please, have a modernization for the servers. (Specifically, tick/refreshrate)

[Iselion]

It's always been astounding the number of people who blame server ticks when it's mostly animations delays and ping.

Server ticks are relevant for DoTs because, well, they tick.

This is false. When you provoke a mob, you see it go off, but the mob doesn't immediately run to you, it takes about half a second. Same with with interjects, pushbacks, pull-ins and ESPECIALLY Rescue. This is because the servers are updating slowly to reduce server load. Had you played any other MMOs, you'd have noticed how bizarrely poor FFXIV is in this regard. It feels "sticky" when you switch over.

Now this is not to say animation delays aren't also a factor and to be honest those should go, inconsistent as they are. BLM has several skills that will show damage before the spell even visually pops while Benediction takes a full second from a button press to go off. Astounding that this has not been changed since 2.0 for a skill that is supposed to be for emergency use.

[Jeeqbit]

When you provoke a mob, you see it go off, but the mob doesn't immediately run to you, it takes about half a second.

True.

Same with with interjects

With interject it takes a while, yes, but there are far more responsive abilities showing that they can make them more responsive if they want to, such as Sidewinder as compared with many of Bard's other attack abilities such as Bloodletter or Empyreal Arrow which do a real slow arrow animation before executing.

Tank Stances or Inner Release are also faster compared to a lot of other abilities such as Hallowed Ground.

pushbacks, pull-ins and ESPECIALLY Rescue.

At hunts what you notice with hundreds of players is that it knocks them back using a simple loop that cycles through all the players up to a pre-determined maximum based on proximity and it takes absolutely ages. This maximum also applies to standing in aoes. If you walk far enough away from the hunt with lots of people there but still stand in the aoe, it doesn't affect you.

It's easy to notice in content as well with abilities like Shake It Off where it cycles through all the players to apply it one-by-one, especially in Seat of Sacrifice when you use Tank LB and the LB buff expires on one person before the snapshot.

But in these situations specifically, the loop tick seems like it's not for the server as a whole, but for the specific loop that is knocking everyone back or applying the cast's effect, as if they just added a giant pause in each loop cycle for KBs and other ability effects or their hardware is just overwhelmed in general.

But I still feel that this is something you mainly notice on things that affect a lot of people (like at hunts) and that, to me, the example of Sidewinder vs Bloodletter shows the world of difference there is when they simply don't do the animation thing.

When I play on lower pings, even abilities that seem moderately slow like Rampart are fast enough that double weaving is extremely easy and smooth.

I feel that if they would just address the animation delay issue and apply certain effects clientside (and remove them if the server decides it's wrong), then we could purely focus on how much of a remaining issue server delays are or whether there is a hardware improvement they can make.

Had you played any other MMOs, you'd have noticed how bizarrely poor FFXIV is in this regard.

I agree. They didn't have these animation delays (like my example of Sidewinder vs Bloodletter) because doing that interferes with gameplay and responsiveness. I can see why they would do it for a lore reason but every other game decides gameplay is more important.

[Silverquick]

I actually agree with this,

Its starting to get very noticable these days. I'll be way outside of some AoE mechanic, and I die in a place where there's no way in hell it should have hit me but did.

I havent' ever noticed it quite this bad before, and it affects whole alliances too.

[Jeeqbit]

Its starting to get very noticable these days. I'll be way outside of some AoE mechanic, and I die in a place where there's no way in hell it should have hit me but did.

Where you die is not the same as where you got hit though. You usually get hit when the cast bar completes or the red aoe disappears, but the act of the server setting your character to a "dead" status is delayed.

By the time it sets it, you have definitely had time to run far away from it, but it doesn't change the fact that it snapshotted you as dead a few seconds earlier, and it goes through with executing that death regardless. Generally, you know your character is dead a few seconds before they actually die because of having seen yourself in the red circle when it disappear or when the cast completed.

It is certainly an odd system to not do it purely by animation, but it is just how it is and I don't think there is necessarily a right way to do it. It could snapshot via cast or via animation and that's a choice for a developer but I think that cast is more consistent while animation is more intuitive from playing other games.

[dasimBaa]

It's always been astounding the number of people who blame server ticks when it's mostly animations delays and ping.

Server ticks are relevant for DoTs because, well, they tick.

Jesus christ what did i just read.

Just so you also understand this a teeny tiny bit.

Whenever you see people sliding across the floor without even turning properly yet, it's cause the server is trying to predict movement based on the last input.
This is why pvp movement is so messy, floaty and delayed. Because your client only gets the ACTUAL position every 0,3 seconds. Same with NPCS if a tank does a pull and you try to hit the mobs that run after him. You stand inside them, but it says they are not in range.

This has almost nothing to do with ping. Besides the fact i have a 20 ping im in Austria/Europe.

What bothers me about your response is the ignorance that you think you know what you're talking about. If what you said was true it would apply to all MMORPG's we play. So you're empirically just wrong.

[MuraBoy]

It's always been astounding the number of people who blame server ticks when it's mostly animations delays and ping.

Server ticks are relevant for DoTs because, well, they tick.

No, my friend
We're talking about the tick rate of ffxiv servers... i mean, the rate of information being updated

[MuraBoy]

By the way guys, there's an older thread about this ffxiv issue, if you wanna check: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...ay-in-the-game

[Swordsman]

No, my friend
We're talking about the tick rate of ffxiv servers... i mean, the rate of information being updated

Yep, this is what essentially allows slidecasting to happen. A player that's casting can start moving on their screen, but the server will think the player is stationary because it still hasn't yet processed the information that the player has started moving.

[Jeeqbit]

We're talking about the tick rate of ffxiv servers... i mean, the rate of information being updated

Alright but that assumes everything is single-threaded, which it very well could be. There would have to be a main server loop and that could refresh at any interval they want, but we can't see their code and to what extent they actually do operations side-by-side.

Using a single thread is something from prehistoric times. It's 2023 and it would be surprising if they didn't use multiple threads. But I can't see their code, so.

What bothers me about your response is the ignorance that you think you know what you're talking about.

Because I do know what I'm talking about. There is a such thing as threads (where operations happen side-by-side) and we can't necessarily see whether they make use of them or how they have gone about any of this, but I made an extremely clear example of a loop in my previous posts that is visible at hunts in particular as well as an example that can be reproduced of the difference between Sidewinder and Bloodletter.

If what you said was true it would apply to all MMORPG's we play. So you're empirically just wrong.

I remember ping affecting me in other games actually, but maybe that is when ping is 200-300 ms and maybe when internet wires weren't as good as they are now. I also agreed that other games don't suffer these animation delays.

This has almost nothing to do with ping. Besides the fact i have a 20 ping im in Austria/Europe.

I don't think I've quite played at a ping that low so maybe it is harder for me to distinguish. I wasn't saying there isn't a refresh rate either. I just find the animation delay to be the more significant issue ie. difference between Sidewinder and Bloodletter.

All the other issues with snapshotting and movement, I just don't find to be a big deal to me at all and don't cause me any problems even at 200 ping.

Because your client only gets the ACTUAL position every 0,3 seconds.

Now let's say this is the case and it affects casts. Someone said they have to move by 75% of the cast bar. A refresh rate of 300 ms out of an average cast of 3 seconds (3000ms) is 10%, not 25%. You would have to have 450 ping to need to move by 75% of the cast bar. Even so, that's normally plenty of time with legacy movement.

Let's apply this logic to an interrupt. If a cast is 3 seconds (3000ms), you would have to use the interrupt by 90% of the cast bar in order to guarantee it registers, which isn't much of a problem. But that isn't the only factor, because there is ping (let's assume the ping is 200ms) and an animation delay (let's assume this is 300ms because I don't know the delay for this specifically). Now you have to use it by 75% of the cast bar. Which is tighter but still doable.

[dasimBaa]

All the other issues with snapshotting and movement, I just don't find to be a big deal to me at all and don't cause me any problems even at 200 ping.

Now let's say this is the case and it affects casts. Someone said they have to move by 75% of the cast bar. A refresh rate of 300 ms out of an average cast of 3 seconds (3000ms) is 10%, not 25%. You would have to have 450 ping to need to move by 75% of the cast bar. Even so, that's normally plenty of time with legacy movement.

Let's apply this logic to an interrupt. If a cast is 3 seconds (3000ms), you would have to use the interrupt by 90% of the cast bar in order to guarantee it registers, which isn't much of a problem. But that isn't the only factor, because there is ping (let's assume the ping is 200ms) and an animation delay (let's assume this is 300ms because I don't know the delay for this specifically). Now you have to use it by 75% of the cast bar. Which is tighter but still doable.

I has little to do with anyone having problems with it, you can get used to it. I said that in my post. But why do i have to get used to something like that in 2023.

And your example with the interupt is essentially how it works. Or have you ever seen someone kick at 90% and it still going off. And iirc interupt is near instant animation.

but it's a bit different still. There is likely systems and "queues" of sorts that optimize and try to compensate for ping related inputs likely by asking when your client sent this input independent and in relation to the refreshrate of other informations like AOE circles, Cast bars, position query etc.