Can we please, have a modernization for the servers. (Specifically, tick/refreshrate)

[Jeeqbit]

Like i said the theme and name of the series does a lot for this game. In my opinion at least.

Well yes, for sure. I think that is true for a lot of MMORPGs. The brand is a big part of the draw. People can make the greatest MMORPG in the world, but without an interesting brand that already has fans, it may just never catch on. Likewise, they can make the worst MMORPG in the world, but if it has the brand then fans of that brand will play it.

Already I look at a lot of these new MMORPGs and as amazing as they look graphically or mechanically, I just don't care. Because there is nothing that has made me care about their lore or their world.

So it is very important that these new, brandless MMORPGs give you a reason to care about the world around you. The easiest way to do that is actually to have an MSQ that teaches you the lore of the world, makes you care about it, and makes you feel that this MMORPG is your home.

Otherwise, it is just a piece of terrain with some special effects and the moment they make a mistake, you'll leave it and never look back.

[dasimBaa]

Well yes, for sure. I think that is true for a lot of MMORPGs. The brand is a big part of the draw. People can make the greatest MMORPG in the world, but without an interesting brand that already has fans, it may just never catch on. Likewise, they can make the worst MMORPG in the world, but if it has the brand then fans of that brand will play it.

Already I look at a lot of these new MMORPGs and as amazing as they look graphically or mechanically, I just don't care. Because there is nothing that has made me care about their lore or their world.

So it is very important that these new, brandless MMORPGs give you a reason to care about the world around you. The easiest way to do that is actually to have an MSQ that teaches you the lore of the world, makes you care about it, and makes you feel that this MMORPG is your home.

Otherwise, it is just a piece of terrain with some special effects and the moment they make a mistake, you'll leave it and never look back.

Yea i'm talking specifically the Riot MMO, Ashes of Creations and the one Anime one i forgot the name that is out in Japan already and super popular too.

[Ardentrage]

This thread seems to most accurately depict the issues I have with the net code. I enjoy the game and have spent 1,000+ hours playing over the past several years, and I believe improvements to the net code would increase the player base and player enjoyment.

There seems to be many varying opinions, problems, ideas, and justifications about the net code. I don't fully understand coding and functioning. I understand this may be a difficult task with the games engine, but would still like any improvements possible. It may be possible
to improve the netcode seeing that the graphics of the game are being overhauled, and seeing how responsive FFXVI is. FFXVI is offline, but uses a modified engine from FFXIV. This problem also seems to be mostly localized to the Americas. Here is my feedback and requests.

Feedback Request:
1. improve the server tick rate of the game overall.

2. Update the tick rate of player positioning from 300 ms to mmorpg current standards. Compare to other major MMOs, and select a similar tick rate. Some use dynamic tick rates to decrease server load.

3. A request for an east coast server in NA.

It is clear that FFXIV is behind in the area of netcode. The low tick rate and other net code factors causes an over reliance on telegraphed moves in boss fight design, which prevents most reactive playing. This constrains healers and tanks by removing reactive play. This also limits boss fight design. This also has a negative impact on PVP and causes the mode to be mostly unplayable. This was clearly demonstrated in the Fall Guys collaboration. The low tick rate makes the game feel less responsive overall. Player feedback from the Fall Guys collaboration has been clear about an improvement to the net code. Thanks for your time!

[Jeeqbit]

This thread seems to most accurately depict the issues I have with the net code.

Net code is just a buzzword everyone uses. Most people who use it, in my opinion, just don't understand the subject. Technically they even did improve the netcode recently because they are using a library from unreal 4/5.

1. improve the server tick rate of the game overall.

Much of the prior debate in here showed how irrelevant this is, because if the tick rate is 300 ms then that is 12% of a 2.5 GCD. It is 10% of the fastest boss cast bars. Which begs the question of what the player was doing to react in the other 90% of that timeframe.

Improving it would be welcome, but I don't think this is the actual cause of people's problems, because again if you haven't moved out of a red circle for 90% of the cast bar then it is pretty strange to do it that late.

3. A request for an east coast server in NA.

This would be good. It used to be in a better location but then they moved it, which seemed to be universally regarded as a poor decision. If they just moved the entire NA data center to the cloud server, which was better located, I doubt anyone would have a problem with it.

The low tick rate and other net code factors causes an over reliance on telegraphed moves in boss fight design

This is not true. The concept of telegraphing a move prior to the cast bar, and then executing the animation after the cast bar completes, is an intentional design decision by SE and would exist regardless of the tick rate.

which prevents most reactive playing

Again, if people are reacting to animations instead of cast bars/telegraphs, it's too late and they will get hit. That would be the case even if the tick rate was 1ms.

This constrains healers and tanks by removing reactive play.

No it does not. I am a tank main. I react to the decisions and mistakes of my party regularly. For example, if someone gets hit or gets a vuln stack I use Nascent Flash on them. Sometimes I use Thrill of Battle when a regen is nearing expire, knowing they will refresh it and it'll benefit from the higher potency. On a healer, I regularly use Rescue to save people.

Does it affect reactivity? Maybe, because for example, using Shake It Off takes time to cycle through party members and apply the buff and in that time, things can kill them. If it applied faster, it may be slightly more likely to save them. However, it can work the other way sometimes, because the delayed nature of people being killed occasionally allows them to be saved. If you're slow using something like Rescue, sometimes it won't Rescue them in time due to the delay. So it affects reactivity but it doesn't prevent it.

But as this topic has previously brought up, it's not just about the tick rate. Abilities have different animation delays that make it worse.

[Swordsman]

This thread seems to most accurately depict the issues I have with the net code. I enjoy the game and have spent 1,000+ hours playing over the past several years, and I believe improvements to the net code would increase the player base and player enjoyment.

There seems to be many varying opinions, problems, ideas, and justifications about the net code. I don't fully understand coding and functioning. I understand this may be a difficult task with the games engine, but would still like any improvements possible. It may be possible
to improve the netcode seeing that the graphics of the game are being overhauled, and seeing how responsive FFXVI is. FFXVI is offline, but uses a modified engine from FFXIV. This problem also seems to be mostly localized to the Americas. Here is my feedback and requests.

Feedback Request:
1. improve the server tick rate of the game overall.

2. Update the tick rate of player positioning from 300 ms to mmorpg current standards. Compare to other major MMOs, and select a similar tick rate. Some use dynamic tick rates to decrease server load.

3. A request for an east coast server in NA.

It is clear that FFXIV is behind in the area of netcode. The low tick rate and other net code factors causes an over reliance on telegraphed moves in boss fight design, which prevents most reactive playing. This constrains healers and tanks by removing reactive play. This also limits boss fight design. This also has a negative impact on PVP and causes the mode to be mostly unplayable. This was clearly demonstrated in the Fall Guys collaboration. The low tick rate makes the game feel less responsive overall. Player feedback from the Fall Guys collaboration has been clear about an improvement to the net code. Thanks for your time!

Agreed. Player position update rate is pretty terrible in this game. The server will always register your position as being 1-2 seconds (sometimes more) behind where you see yourself on your PC at home, which makes it easier to get snapshotted in AOE, etc.

SE in the past (patch 2.1) actually had to increase FFXIV's player position update rate to make Titan playable.



Source for Patch 2.1 notes if anyone's curious: https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...c43828a#system

They really should consider increasing player position update rate some more, at least so it's comparable to other modern MMOs. It would IMO make the game much more enjoyable, especially PVP. But server upgrades require money, and well... we all know how SE likes to do things when it comes to money, so I won't hold my breath for any kind of meaningful upgrade to the netcode.

[Ardentrage]

Thanks for your reply. The reactivity is impacted. I would say that the more delay there is between what I see and what I do the worse a game feels to play.

I agree that it is a design choice to use telegraphing as a mechanic, but what I am arguing is that is a forced choice due to the way that the netcode functions. If there was an improved tick rate it would allow for different design choices. They could still choose to telegraph moves but could also include reactive mechanics.

To compare unresponsive vs responsive let's look at two different games by the same team. Let's say there is an AOE attack in FFXIV that is telegraphed for 3 seconds indicated by a boss animation. if you are attentive you can dodge the mechanic with little room for error. Then the AOE snap shot occurs on the ground in .3 seconds. If you are hit then 3 seconds later you take damage.

Then in FFXVI there is an AOE attack that happens in .5 seconds. You can dodge, and there is little room for error. If you are hit then you instantly take damage with zero delay.

The difference is that there is a gap between each event that occurs in the low tick rate game.

That leads to a different discussion about snapshotting, AOE detectors, and animations, but I'm not trying to discuss that. It's a really complex conversation, so that's why I'm just trying to focus on responsiveness and tick rate. More updates per second make the game feel smoother. Visually a 144 fps monitor looks better than a 60 fps monitor.
A 60 fps monitor looks better than a 20 fps monitor and so on. The same goes for tick rates and feel of a game. The cons of increased tick rate are server load and costs. The benefit of increasing tick rate out weighs the cons.

Back to the comparison, to new players the system in FFXVI is more intuitive, and doesn't have to be explained through metagaming. In FFXIV there is an endless flow of players having this mechanic explained to them, because it is not intuitive due to the delays. The new player experience is harmed by this and is confusing.

I believe your perspective comes from being a veteran player, and doesn't consider the new player experience, which is vital to the growth and long term success of the game. This is also just my opinion on how the game feels to me and is my genuine feedback that I believe is valuable.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Thanks for your reply. The reactivity is impacted. I would say that the more delay there is between what I see and what I do the worse a game feels to play.

I agree that it is a design choice to use telegraphing as a mechanic, but what I am arguing is that is a forced choice due to the way that the netcode functions. If there was an improved tick rate it would allow for different design choices. They could still choose to telegraph moves but could also include reactive mechanics.

To compare unresponsive vs responsive let's look at two different games by the same team. Let's say there is an AOE attack in FFXIV that is telegraphed for 3 seconds indicated by a boss animation. if you are attentive you can dodge the mechanic with little room for error. Then the AOE snap shot occurs on the ground in .3 seconds. If you are hit then 3 seconds later you take damage.

Then in FFXVI there is an AOE attack that happens in .5 seconds. You can dodge, and there is little room for error. If you are hit then you instantly take damage with zero delay.

The difference is that there is a gap between each event that occurs in the low tick rate game.

That leads to a different discussion about snapshotting, AOE detectors, and animations, but I'm not trying to discuss that. It's a really complex conversation, so that's why I'm just trying to focus on responsiveness and tick rate. More updates per second make the game feel smoother. Visually a 144 fps monitor looks better than a 60 fps monitor.
A 60 fps monitor looks better than a 20 fps monitor and so on. The same goes for tick rates and feel of a game. The cons of increased tick rate are server load and costs. The benefit of increasing tick rate out weighs the cons.

Back to the comparison, to new players the system in FFXVI is more intuitive, and doesn't have to be explained through metagaming. In FFXIV there is an endless flow of players having this mechanic explained to them, because it is not intuitive due to the delays. The new player experience is harmed by this and is confusing.

I believe your perspective comes from being a veteran player, and doesn't consider the new player experience, which is vital to the growth and long term success of the game. This is also just my opinion on how the game feels to me and is my genuine feedback that I believe is valuable.

The problem with what you think is tick rate is that it's not. Moves in xiv generally are on a 3 second cast time. This is separate from the tick rate.

The tick rate is 300ms.

Also, xvi is single player, there is no tick rate because there is no client/server communication.


Also,as a new player, you should assume giant red area on the ground is bad, move out of bad quickly.

[Jeeqbit]

They could still choose to telegraph moves but could also include reactive mechanics.

They do have reactive mechanics in the sense of a fight like Rathalos, where you observe the animations to determine how to react. They actually had a lot of animation stuff in ARR, but moved toward cast bars the further into Heavensward we got. Tanking some ARR content is like playing a different game because of how it's all about feeling out when it will do a tank buster or watching animations.

To compare unresponsive vs responsive let's look at two different games by the same team. Let's say there is an AOE attack in FFXIV that is telegraphed for 3 seconds indicated by a boss animation. if you are attentive you can dodge the mechanic with little room for error. Then the AOE snap shot occurs on the ground in .3 seconds. If you are hit then 3 seconds later you take damage.

Then in FFXVI there is an AOE attack that happens in .5 seconds. You can dodge, and there is little room for error. If you are hit then you instantly take damage with zero delay.

It's not an entirely fair comparison though. FFXIV has to account for reaction time (let's give that the .5 seconds), then ping (which could be as high as .4 seconds if you are far enough), then the reason to limit everything by a tick rate of .3 seconds is that it's processing more than 1 client and potentially 50-500 in some cases, such as the Chi FATE. If we added all that together we at least justify a 1.2 second telegraph. To be fair, there are a few situations where SE does make us dance out of aoes faster than normal, but normally we just have 3 seconds or more.

Back to the comparison, to new players the system in FFXVI is more intuitive, and doesn't have to be explained through metagaming.

I agree that it's not as intuitive to new players, but it is more consistent. Knowing for a fact it always snapshots when the cast bar ends is a lot more consistent than trying to figure out where in the animation the snapshot occurs for each individual mechanic.

[4clubbedace]

The graphical update sure will make the game a lot better, but I think they should have worked on a snapshot system revamp for 7.0 and leave the graphics update for 8.0 or do them both on the course of 7.0. The game feels awful to play at times, specially above 70ms, which is like 85% of the NA playerbase. To the point where plugins that mitigate this issues are mandatory if you want to play semi-comfortably. It's a 2010 game, not a 90s game. Please SE...

everyoe move to the west coast so theres more ppl in my timezone

[Ardentrage]

The problem with what you think is tick rate is that it's not. Moves in xiv generally are on a 3 second cast time. This is separate from the tick rate.

The tick rate is 300ms.

Also, xvi is single player, there is no tick rate because there is no client/server communication.


Also,as a new player, you should assume giant red area on the ground is bad, move out of bad quickly.

Cast times are fine and that all feels good to me. I play ninja because it increase my engagement with the game and there are many ogcd's. But there are issues that are complex that cause things like double weaving and mudras to miss input. Have you ever experienced this?

I understand that one is single player and one is online, but one could do more to feel like it is offline. Like even just clicking to turn in a quest there are delays and sure you can contribute that to lag, a separate issue, but the tick rate in my opinion affects every facet of the game, not just rotations and gcd.