Dawntrail Wishlist top 3 desired healer additions

[Renathras]

Once again, the same energy:

'Tis no wonder it's impossible to see a common ground. Why do people even bother? lol

Nope, and I'm not taking your bait anymore. Good day, sir.

So uhhh….where is this massive group of ‘Sylphies’ who want all healers to be pure healing, no dps, no support, no nothing but just heals.

There isn't one. It's a strawman caricature for the "moar DPS" people to use whenever an actual opposing position attempts to pierce their echo chamber.

…where are they? Who asked for that? One individual is not a large group.

Can we stop blaming things on this invisible illuminati-style unseen group, and start blaming the ones who actually made these decisions….. the devs . Full assault!

I've never seen anyone ask for it myself, nor have I ever done so. In fact, I've rejected "proposals" of "just remove all damage buttons from healers" or the like made by pro-DPS people as ridicule/caricature threads.

Maybe it’s a DC thing, but literally everytime I play a dps I’ve had a healer that dps’s. I genuinely cannot remember the last time I went into content and the healer made no effort to dps. I’ve seen plenty of poor healing skills, Medica II at full HP, over reliance on GCD heals, not enough oGCD, etc. I’ve seen people Glare infrequently and not do 100% uptime on their DoT, but then I wouldn’t say that’s a Sylphie. Isn’t the whole argument the so-called ‘dps crowd’ makes that Sylphies can just not hit their dps spells and nobody will care? I’d say even a token effort to dps means they’re actively trying not to be a completely dead weight.
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I agree with this too. It’s less commonly referred to but there is also the idea of a ‘reverse Sylphie’ who wants solely death and destruction on all healers and they should never have to heal again. To which we can ask the question…where are these people lol? I don’t think I can see them

God love ya, man, you're an island of sanity in a sea of...not.

Don't assume their intentions. It's literally what you called me out for

For the record, I didn't call you out for doing so until you did it to me first. Secondly, you're literally doing it here. There was no "backhanded insult". I was stating as fact that people here respond negatively to posts like his. Had nothing to do with his vet trip. Also, how many words do you want me to spend on offering my condolences? If "just 2 words" isn't enough. This is you being ridiculously nitpicky. There also was no "ad for the 4 healer"; you can't tell me not to assume other people's intentions and then immediately do so with my won. There was no "advertisement". God damn.

You aren't "using logic to understand" my opinion. Using logic to understand my opinion would look like this:

"Ren, in your own words, what do you think about X?"

You instead put words in my mouth (in violation of your Sig rule 6), often while calling me out for doing the same (this violates your rule 5), to tell me what you think/want me to be thinking since it's a caricature/strawman that is easier to assault (ignoring your rule 3 and probably 7).

I just need to stop taking your bait.

I'm so tired of you being everywhere and being toxic with every post.

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As for Ty, unlike you and I, me and he have a long history of back and forths. I'm just more than over it and exhausted with it at this point. There's no "interpretation" needed. He absolutely looks down on me and has made it crystal clear in no uncertain terms more than once. Unlike your inventions of what you want to think I've said.

I'm pretty sure I've seen at least 3 different people here say that the solution for making healers fun is to have healing required be so frequent that we are essentially forced into using at least 80% of our GCDs on heals.

You mean in answer to the people saying "we spend 80% of our GCDs on the same spam DPS spell and this sucks", they propose making encounters actually require GCD healing to break up that?

In what way is that "no dps spells, no utility, just heals heals heals"?

I also think such proposals tend to include that we need things like MP management and a top-down rework of encounter design. So that doesn't really fit your position.

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Who are you talking about with AST, btw? If you're referring to me, then I'm going to.../sigh...assume good faith in your post and that you just missed it:

1) I said before why I don't like AST, and it's the APM. As long as Draw/Play are oGCDs, it's not fun. My first run of the 24 man I did as AST and it was extremely hellacious. Too much juggling while trying to actually heal and deal with mechanics. Granted, part of that is low general familiarity, but it's why my AST proposals are to make Cards on the GCD.

2) I literally said in many of my 4 Healers proposals that if AST was the one that wasn't made stupid DPS complex, I'd swap to it. I did say it WOULD need the above (reduction in APM and moving a lot of oGCDs to the GCD), but I 100% have said "I don't care which, you guys pick 3, I'll take whichever one you want least, even if it's AST, the one I personally like the least." You can't have missed that, since I've said it multiple times and I'm pretty sure you've replied to it before. I'd honestly like Cards to have no CD and be GCD so in group play, the playstyle is to roll buffs (like how WoW Resto Druids used to roll HoTs) in between healing people, as I think that'd be kind of fun. Seriously, you can't ignore what I say all the time but also be so strongly opinionated against it; or rather, the caricature you invent of it.

3) I have said that WHM is the most logical choice to retain the current style, as it's the most suited to it, and having the most approachable healer being the one that starts at level 1 makes the most logical sense. The second most logical would be SGE since it would make some sense to have the most approachable one as the one that unlocks closest to level cap for people that want to make the transition. The one that makes the least sense is the one you have to go ~30 hours into the game to unlock, then have to go down to level 30 to get back up to 50 to pick back up where you left off in the story. Even SCH makes more sense. So AST makes the absolute least sense, but despite that, I said I would accept it anyway. SURELY you haven't forgotten?

4) I could keep up with the "more healing required" part just fine - btw, once again, talking about someone present in the conversation in the third person is incredibly rude. What happened was the pace of damage is also in a point where there's a lot of movement. What specifically did I tell you I didn't like about Barbarrica? Was it the damage? No. It was the movement during the damage not allowing GCD healing. That said, I wasn't having trouble healing people at all. What happened was the other healer decided to last second bolt at me when we got the spread markers, killing us both, and we had no raiser in the party. Up until then, things were gravy. So no, your attempted INSULT failed yet again. Just stop. And I didn't "go on the forums complaining", either. I was replying in a thread where someone was saying the fight was too braindead easy with the counterpoint that it was absolutely not so. I didn't post a thread to complain, I posted a rebuttal to someone complaining that it was too easy. Full stop.

5) "I didn't bring this up to disparage anyone" - said immediately after disparaging someone.

Me personally, I think we need more healing required but less movement. The two don't work well together while healing spells have cast times. Not for GCD healing, anyway.

And if they're not an invisible illuminati group, then surely...

You're inventing one group and then blaming another group for the perceived sins of the group you outright made up.

That’s what I mean;
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You say that ‘people complain about the new trial’, but you’re referring to a specific individual.

She isn't even, since I know the post she's likely referring to (and the context of the rest of her post is directed at me) and that isn't what I said myself.

There’s a second one I can think of but I’m assuming that’s not who you’re referring to. But that’s still only two people, so I’m not sure it’s really evidence that there’s a group of Sylphies running around ruining healers with their ‘complaints’. If anything it’s evidence that they’re either trolling or intentionally trying to create arguments.

I've said many times before, but the people here who are in an anti-Ren hate cult refuse to accept it, but I use damage spells all the time and think it makes sense to have them for when not healing. I prefer healing to dealing damage, which is why I picked the role called "Healer" instead of "Damage Dealer" and think that encounters should be designed more for healing with healers, which is also why I think we should be using GCDs for it not oGCDs and healing plans.

I'm not a "Sylphie" by definition. To their mild credit, after calling me one for a couple years, they finally seem to have stopped. Sure, they replace that with new and more exciting insults and disparaging snide and condescending comments, but at least they stopped that one.

I don’t think that’s enough to really say there’s a ‘group’ that’s just does not want any kind of increase to healing requirements.

The only people that have outright argued against increasing healing requirements - ironically - are the people arguing for more DPS.

We've had these conversations in here for a while (I'm generally the only voice in the opposition), but I've suggested it many times before. What I was always told is "They'd have to remake every single encounter in the entire game and that's too much work, so they won't do it. And even if they did it, ilevel inflation will mean the healing becomes easy before the tier is out anyway, so we'll be back to 80% Glarespam. And they did it just a little with P5-8 and people quit healing in droves in Savage because they were having to use GCDs for healing."

The only people outright opposed to increasing healing requirements are those types of voices. Though it's complicated because I think some do want more damage, they just think it won't happen and, even if it did, think it would destroy the raiding community.

Some people also like the technical process of building out and executing healing plans, and derive fun from that. Until they succeed, at which point it becomes boring, but because they enjoy that initial process, they want to retain it.

But I’m still just so tired of every healer discussion being reduce to a battle of the virtuous angelic ‘Sylphies’ VS the blood-addled ‘DPS’ers’. When realistically the battle was never ‘players against other players’, it’s literally been ‘devs’ VS ‘players’ since the beginning but we just keep taking potshots at these formless groups of concepts as if they’re literal people

Honestly, and this is the thing if anyone other than me said it here, everyone would agree with it:

It's frustration.

Everyone knows what we have now kind of is bleh. The people wanting more healing dislike how little there is to heal. The people wanting more support/damage focus dislike how little damage kit there is. We went from ARR to SB having WHM for the first group and SCH for the second group to having every Job stripped to AST's DPS kit (without its buff gameplay) and then encounters changed to where all the healing was done through oGCDs.

No one's really happy with it, and everyone more or less agrees there needs to be change.
[EDIT: AmiableApkallu got it part right, if you ignroe the "BuT CaPiTalLEtterS" parts.]

The issue is they don't agree on what the change should be.

Some few want only healing increases. (This is also apparently the majority of JP forums, so goes the rumor mill, anyway).

A large portion want damage increases. (This seems to be the majority of English forum goers, though Reddit is split).

I'm a nearly lone voice (a few others on rare occasion have joined me) here in thinking we should do both; increase healing in encounters but also diversify the healing Jobs so they appeal to different types of players like they did in ARR. A holistic solution that requires reworking encounter damage profiles, free healing on tanks and DPsers, oGCD power vs GCD power, and diversifying the healers into closer to their SB forms (WHM is so much better in ShB and EW which is why I oppose doing so with it aside from readding Aero 3); this way everyone has something to play in this new world that they'd enjoy. It's the ultimate compromise position, though it's constantly said not to be.

But everyone (or close enough) is frustrated with the current system and lashing out due to a combination of that frustration and that we're basically like political parties; we agree on the problem, we differ on the solution, and people have a tendency to insult and disparage and attack people they disagree with rather than compromising with them or engaging in rational discussion.

But I think it absolutely is borne of that general frustration.

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Once again, love ya, man. You're an island of sanity in a sea of...not.