Dawntrail Wishlist top 3 desired healer additions

[Allegor]

A job shouldn't be designed on the basis that someone could make a mistake, or not care and that could affect me.

*stares at tanks being their own healers*

[Renathras]

You know what? I'm unloading. I voiced my concerns for things I've had an issue with in the past and you react like that. I told you I WANTED you to get more to do and you ignored that. I am sitting at a vet at five thirty in the morning with a dying cat and you just had to remind me of why I don't interact with communities anymore.

Thanks for that. Have a nice day

My condolences. It's not you, that's just how people tend to respond to things here.

Feel free to post what you think any time. For what it's worth, I agree with you. I propose something I call "The 4 Healers Model" all the time to address just this thing, as well as overall changes to encounters and diversifying the healer Jobs' kits more to give people more options and ensure people have more that they can feel they can engage with well.

But there is a lot of "Not taking yes for an answer" going on these days. I'm sorry you had to be on the receiving end of it, though.

[ty_taurus]

My condolences. It's not you, that's just how people tend to respond to things here.

Feel free to post what you think any time. For what it's worth, I agree with you. I propose something I call "The 4 Healers Model" all the time to address just this thing, as well as overall changes to encounters and diversifying the healer Jobs' kits more to give people more options and ensure people have more that they can feel they can engage with well.

But there is a lot of "Not taking yes for an answer" going on these days. I'm sorry you had to be on the receiving end of it, though.

I'm so sorry to hear about your troubles, but can I interest you in some of my one-of-a-kind 4 Healers Model™ clinically proven to improve the state of healer satisfaction by real doctors who are in no way, shape, or form financially invested in the success of my product? Tell me, are you satisfied with your job? What if I told you that you could become your own boss and make your own schedule? You see, I'm also recruiting new members of my team here at Ren Inc, where you too can sell 4 Healers Model™ to sprouts across Eorzea, but not only can you sell our wonderful, clinically proven to improve the state of healer satisfaction products, but you too can build your own team by recruiting your friends and family members to join the company as well. When you have your own downline, you'll be able to make money based on the amount of 4 Healers Model™ that your team sells. And anyone they recruit to sell our products will also earn you more money as well. So what do you say, are you ready to get started? Quick! Writedown150differentpeopleyouknowrightnow! And then you'll be able to buy yourself a $449 starting kit to become a 4 Healers Model™ salesman!

[Renathras]

I'm so sorry to hear about your troubles, but can I interest you in some of my one-of-a-kind 4 Healers Model™ clinically proven to improve the state of healer satisfaction by real doctors who are in no way, shape, or form financially invested in the success of my product? Tell me, are you satisfied with your job? What if I told you that you could become your own boss and make your own schedule? You see, I'm also recruiting new members of my team here at Ren Inc, where you too can sell 4 Healers Model™ to sprouts across Eorzea, but not only can you sell our wonderful, clinically proven to improve the state of healer satisfaction products, but you too can build your own team by recruiting your friends and family members to join the company as well. When you have your own downline, you'll be able to make money based on the amount of 4 Healers Model™ that your team sells. And anyone they recruit to sell our products will also earn you more money as well. So what do you say, are you ready to get started? Quick! Writedown150differentpeopleyouknowrightnow! And then you'll be able to buy yourself a $449 starting kit to become a 4 Healers Model™ salesman!

Read that post again.

Then ask yourself if someone said that to you, how you'd feel.

All of you responded to his troubles with, effectively "Well, how were we supposed to know? And your personal issues don't justify your opinion here. But anyway, condolences or whatever."

My post was "Condolences, I agree with what you said, and I'm sorry you were hurt."

And yet, from mine, you get that ridiculous caricature above.

EDIT:

Yes, I know you really really REALLY don't like it. I can posit reasons you don't like it, but I'm not a mind reader. I suspect it's...a combination of somethings. But if I say it, you'll just get angry.

But honestly? I don't know. I've heard you give reason but it always comes down to something like "it's bad design", but that's subjective and I've argued against it before, which leads to insults against me instead of discussion...which makes me think that isn't really it.

What I do know is this:

I do know you really hate it.

...but you really hating it doesn't make me saying I agree with someone, and it's why I support that idea because it agrees with that notion, a bad guy.

Funny thing, in any other forum, what I said is accepted.

In the DPS forum, I said the same thing in response to someone asking for DNC's RNG to go away and it was highly supported. In General there's a thread of a hypothetical of the Jobs being completely reworked and others have said the same thing about not every Job being for everyone and everyone having to accept there will be some they don't like and that is what prevents homogenization, and it, too, was supported.

It's only here, only talking about healers, and only among you guys that the idea isn't just not supported, it's treated as anathema and the person suggesting it crucified at every opportunity.

[ICountFrom0]

Not that I don't trust healers, but what I want most for healing in Dawntrail is to get revive back on Paladins at 100.

[IDontPetLalas]

@Renathras


"All of you responded to his troubles with, effectively "Well, how were we supposed to know? And your personal issues don't justify your opinion here. But anyway, condolences or whatever."

This is how you read our posts, however first of all, I didn't see that anywhere, and secondly, I wasn't aware that you were now moderating this forum on behalf of others.

However you need to add things like "It's not you, that's just how people tend to respond to things here., and "But there is a lot of "Not taking yes for an answer" going on these days. I'm sorry you had to be on the receiving end of it, though."

I found Ty's post extremely appropriate well-deserved and funny, given the frequency that you bring up your pet theory.

[Connor]

@Renathras


"All of you responded to his troubles with, effectively "Well, how were we supposed to know? And your personal issues don't justify your opinion here. But anyway, condolences or whatever."

.

Put bluntly this is the only way I read it…

[ty_taurus]

But honestly? I don't know. I've heard you give reason but it always comes down to something like "it's bad design", but that's subjective and I've argued against it before, which leads to insults against me instead of discussion...which makes me think that isn't really it.

Sounds to me like someone hasn't been paying much attention when I do expand on why it's bad design, and then proceeds to take that explanation as a personal attack for some reason.

A cooldown-based RPG is one that finds itself somewhere between traditional turn-based combat and real time combat. In real time combat gameplay, there are a functionally limitless amount of ways that a player can engage with any given encounter, because there are so many factors that can change from one run of that fight to the next. Even when just looking at the player, your movement, your positioning, your choice of attacks and abilities, your timing, your ability to dodge or block incoming enemy attacks... All of that creates a countless number of pathways to victory, and there's not truly a "right" answer. This creates an environment where you have to make choices at any given moment about how you're going to proceed, and that is the cornerstone of combat in video games--it's what makes games fun and interesting. Let's take a look at some examples from Kingdom Hearts. Here are three different versions of a fight with one of the game's superbosses, Xion:

Clear 1: First Clear
Clear 2: Style Clear
Clear 3: Speed Clear

Each player from these examples approached the fight differently, had different experiences, and achieved victory regardless. That dynamism is what makes that game charming and fun. It's what draws may people in and keeps them there. None of those are the "right" answer. All of them won.

A cooldown-based RPG lacks nearly all of the factors that a real time combat game can take advantage of, and to add to that, it's very slow. You are only allowed to perform so many actions in a given window of time, so it needs to find a different solution to create the same cornerstone experience of looking at your options and making a choice, or it risks turning off its audience. It does this by providing to the player a library of abilities to pick from at any given moment, and by creating dynamic interactions between those abilities, that sense of choice and decision-making can be achieved. While it's true that XIV is very linear in its rotation design, that does not mean it is inherently devoid of those choices. And for most jobs, their "neutral" state is something that requires some level of focus to perform correctly. Moreover, it's important if you are going to create a wide selection of abilities, that the majority of them are well-catered to the game you've created. Having situational tools is not a bad thing, but the majority of abilities you provide to the player should feel like viable options for the majority of your game.

The current healer design fails to accomplish any of the above descriptions. It fails to offer a neutral with any sort of required focus or attention, and there is a severely inconsistent appeal to choice that occurs within the healer's gameplay. How much you need your actual healing is not a consistent factor in this game. In a savage fight, I might use each of them at some point, but most of the time, I only need two to three. As a Sage, I find that in almost all forms of content, the only healing I actually require is Kerachole and Ixochole plus the free healing from Kardia. There are vastly more situations in which I use only those two heals and nothing else than there are situations where I need anything else. It would be like if, in those Kingdom Hearts examples, everything except for my ability to attack, guard, dodge, and cast Cure was taken away. Only that would still provide a more engaging gameplay experience than healers currently provide.

That is bad game design. You can love it all you want, but it is still bad design. All I'm asking for is the option to have a proper gameplay experience with any of the four healers. I don't need to take away your ability to button mash, I just want the option to do more than that.

[Connor]

snip

I definitely agree about bad game design being something that limits players experiences to ‘hit damage button’ or ‘hit heal button’, or some variation thereof.

That said, I can still see both sides of the argument. Ren’s idea taken literally (‘make one healer stay the same’) doesn’t solve any issues, but at the same time I do think there’s an argument for a healer to be ‘mostly the same as it is now’.

Like, to take White Mage as an example, the basic concept is that it’s focused more on high-potency direct healing and damage abilities as opposed to the more nuanced approach other healers take. Naturally, this concept doesn’t really work currently because there’s no decision making - you can just hit any heal and you’re basically done, and you only have one dps ability to use anyway. But that doesn’t mean that concept can’t stay the same but develop in a way that still improves the overall gameplay.

Like giving White Mages damage options such as Aero III or Lightblob Attack III damage-over-time attack that can act as sustained dps but have mutual exclusivity with a higher potency DoT that requires more finessed uptime to get the most out of it. Or competing options with Blood Lily to make the mechanic less of a basic ‘Afflatus Misery Ready’ status effect. Giving the job decisions that are less about ‘right’ and ‘wrong’, and more about having a versatile job that can more easily adapt to the players style means we have a job that’s ‘similar to what we have now’ concept wise whilst still having fun and interesting mechanics. That is to say, I don’t think a healer needs to be ‘sacrificed’ to try and make something that appeals to current healer enjoyers, but the concept itself would need improvement before it would fit the way it should.

As an aside, I’ve said before but I think rather than focusing on jobs having set/fixed ‘difficulty levels’, they should simply develop the jobs based on their concepts, what’s fun, etc, then let players determine for themselves which is/isn’t difficult. Because ultimately it’s always going to be different for everyone, so you run into the problem of having to decide which job is the ‘most easy’ and offering it up for sacrifice even though it could be so much more

[Raikai]

Actually my top desired healer addition is... a built-in mouseover functionality for benefical spells without macros.

Not having to swap targets to spot heal or to play AST cards would be a HUGE QoL.