Summoner 7.0 Wishlist

[unjourneyed]

I would be all for getting rid of Carbuncle, it adds nothing and creates problems. We already summon Carbuncle at low levels and then move on to better summons. I was only thinking of the people that might have grown attached to little guy. Adding other ways of healing ourselves seems roundabout though ... why not just fix the one we do have? Other people want to remove it and rez entirely, don't entirely understand why but fair enough.

It is fair to think of people who want to keep the pet as-is and I would not mind if Carbuncle was cosmetic and moved a dedicated system like Bard's performance, where it's only allowed out of combat and not in battle instances. Wishful thinking would have it only be an effect in combat where it could, perhaps, "flip" out of your grimoire above you and disappear on casting "Summon Carbuncle" or fan its tails in front of the player on using "Radiant Aegis".

It would be great to make Physick INT based, but given how long it's been as it has remained MND based for Arcanist, I have a feeling it could finally be on the chopping block and just solely given to SCH. Giving recovery through abilities would allow them to be used between casted actions, so you don't lose out on damage as a damage dealer. I can agree that giving the job more utility for conditional situations like taking unintended (and sometimes turning lethal) damage and in solo-ish content FATEs/Eureka/Bozja/PotD/HoH/Orthos would always be more beneficial, but I do not believe in keeping Physick as an Arcanist spell is the ideal way when we can make use of abilities that are "flavored" towards a summon like Carbuncle and still be able to maintain damage in combat as needed. Personally, I think getting both worlds of "hey, Summoner needs more summon-y stuff like in other FF games" visual and "I really want to support the party sometimes like in other FF games" utility would be ideal.

The whole Resurrection removal ... I'm just going to guess the idea that Resurrection should be removed from the job only comes from the standpoint that the job loses out on potential damage and suffers in balancing in comparison to other jobs because of it. However, the idea also doesn't take in consideration that the ability to revive player characters in non-high end duties being removed would be detrimental to the rest of the playerbase. Looking at how the playerbase in casual content during this event time really nails on how much it is still required.

[OgruMogru]

make their resurrect a phoenix based mitigation spell that they can use on self or a party member that is in risk of dying. Like excog but the raise would trigger on the player taking lethal damage and come back with 1hp.

[Korbei]

The whole Resurrection removal ... I'm just going to guess the idea that Resurrection should be removed from the job only comes from the standpoint that the job loses out on potential damage and suffers in balancing in comparison to other jobs because of it. However, the idea also doesn't take in consideration that the ability to revive player characters in non-high end duties being removed would be detrimental to the rest of the playerbase. Looking at how the playerbase in casual content during this event time really nails on how much it is still required.

I buy that logic with Red Mage but not with Summoner. Because Red Mage can basically spam verraise, I accept the logic behind the argument that the devs are holding RDM back because it fills more of a support role. I don't agree with it but I accept the logic. Summoner, I do not. Summoner is doing just fine. Its ability to raise is very restricted in combat and is basically dependent on Swiftcast which is never available.

And yes, losing it would absolutely be detrimental to everybody. There is so much more going on in this game than 8/24 person content. Not every ability that exists needs to be geared toward that content. People raise their healers in dungeons and prevent resets. They raise their party members in hunt trains to save time. It can be super helpful to have extra raises in Deep Dungeons. It's a major help to everybody in Eureka. It's a QoL ability. That's why everybody can set raise in Variant Dungeons and in Bozja and why it's one of the most coveted Blue Mage spells. It's incredibly useful!

[SweetPete]

I buy that logic with Red Mage but not with Summoner. Because Red Mage can basically spam verraise, I accept the logic behind the argument that the devs are holding RDM back because it fills more of a support role. I don't agree with it but I accept the logic. Summoner, I do not. Summoner is doing just fine. Its ability to raise is very restricted in combat and is basically dependent on Swiftcast which is never available.

And yes, losing it would absolutely be detrimental to everybody. There is so much more going on in this game than 8/24 person content. Not every ability that exists needs to be geared toward that content. People raise their healers in dungeons and prevent resets. They raise their party members in hunt trains to save time. It can be super helpful to have extra raises in Deep Dungeons. It's a major help to everybody in Eureka. It's a QoL ability. That's why everybody can set raise in Variant Dungeons and in Bozja and why it's one of the most coveted Blue Mage spells. It's incredibly useful!

Sorry but it’s probably going bye-bye in 7.0. It survived by the skin of its teeth for 6.0. That was basically Yoshi and the devs telling us don’t expect it in 7.0. If by some miracle it does survive then good but I highly doubt it. Maybe they will give the next caster one or just make RDM as the only caster who can res.

[Korbei]

Let me be clear, it's not ruining the job for me either way. It's ruining it for everybody else.

I just don't understand why people want to get rid of it so badly.

[remiff]

Let me be clear, it's not ruining the job for me either way. It's ruining it for everybody else.

I just don't understand why people want to get rid of it so badly.

It's Yoshi-P who wants to remove it.
He had said before the release of Endwalker that Summoner's resurrection ability would likely be removed for 7.0,
but they decided to keep it for 6.0 because the job was reworked, and they weren't sure how it would turn out.

This led people to believe that its complete removal would be a good thing,
but in the end, Summoner would probably end up in the same category as Machinist, and I'm not sure that would be a good choice.

I'd rather they turn it into a Phoenix ability than remove it completely.

[vetch]

That's hilarious. Rez is half the reason I take Summoner into content. It's not like its gameplay loop is so compelling it'll make up for a lack of utility.

[Ggwppino]

Summoner would probably end up in the same category as Machinist, and I'm not sure that would be a good choice.

However, even if I don't agree with removing the ress, if it were removed, due to the so much mobility it has compared to the role it should play and compete with, it still wouldn't be mistreated like the mch has been for 3/4 of the tier.
Bringing a smn to a raid means bringing 2 physranged but with party bonuses.

And unless it's highly debilitating to the clear for low dps, it won't be like the mch.

That's hilarious. Rez is half the reason I take Summoner into content. It's not like its gameplay loop is so compelling it'll make up for a lack of utility.

Currently the ress is the only thing that makes me pay that little bit of attention to the things I do. It's the only thing I have to adapt to and that can make me vary the rotation, making the rotation a little fresher. That sense of uncertainty, that sense of having to understand if I can or cannot ress, what or not what to sacrifice, when to do it.

Actually, in its current state, losing it would be a great shame. It's one of the very few things that requires a bit of critical thinking while playing.

[DustyBlue]

As a compromise between having Resurrection and not having Resurrection, how about Resurrection being available only during Phoenix phase? But it's free, instant, and restores to full HP.

That way it's not giving summoner so much utility tax on its DPS from having constant access (or as constant as Swiftcast's cooldown, realistically), but it is really circumstantial, but when it IS that circumstance it is actually appreciated. Appreciated in a unique and job appropriate way like red mage's chainable insta-rezes. And it's just so Phoenix, yo.

Or just a really long cooldown if they end up making Phoenix phase manually choosable instead of alternating between Bahamut and Phoenix like clockwork. If so, they could lean into its heal properties even more, and give Everlasting Flight potency worth a damn.

[Ggwppino]

As a compromise between having Resurrection and not having Resurrection, how about Resurrection being available only during Phoenix phase? But it's free, instant, and restores to full HP.

That way it's not giving summoner so much utility tax on its DPS from having constant access (or as constant as Swiftcast's cooldown, realistically), but it is really circumstantial, but when it IS that circumstance it is actually appreciated. Appreciated in a unique and job appropriate way like red mage's chainable insta-rezes. And it's just so Phoenix, yo.

Or just a really long cooldown if they end up making Phoenix phase manually choosable instead of alternating between Bahamut and Phoenix like clockwork. If so, they could lean into its heal properties even more, and give Everlasting Flight potency worth a damn.

That this ress would be in a burst phase and would have the same design problem as EF has from shB where it is a highly situational heal usability due to the very limited time window and rotation rigidity that forces this window to be at 2 minute intervals.

At this point it would be better to just remove it, rather than worry about having a ress every 2 minutes and within 15 seconds people have to die


Different if phoenix became a lego summon. However, this would take away from the player's thoughts whether or not it is better to use the ress, wasting a gcd in burst. It would make an already very simple job even easier