Dark Knight Megathread

[Zairava]

big snippery

We can almost all agree that there's no real synergy in the kit, however...

1) The issue isn't button bloat, it's an oGCD bloat during our big bursts..all the while there is zero interaction within the kit outside of DA granting a free flood/edge. However, if they do absolutely nothing there WILL be button bloat come next expansion.

I do believe there could be actions combined and given a new animation for said ability, though.

merging Edge/Flood gives us even less abilities that use mana and still doesn't solve the issue of oGCD bloat into one single window. I'd like to keep a single-target and aoe variant, but if they combine them...a conal aoe, please.

2a) I don't believe your Blood Weapon suggestion would actually work well in practice, but I can see what you're going for.

As for Abyssal Drain granting mp, unless it gives us 1.5k per charge (or they massively buff our mp generation), it will NOT be more useful than just having Blood Weapon give us both mp and blood gauge. Furthermore, they would have to skyrocket our blood gauge generation to make up for it. I would rather Blood Weapon just gives the haste it gave when using it before 5.0.

It would be cool to see them merge Carve and Spit and Abyssal Drain into something we use every 60s though. Some heavy-hitting ability with a 3000mp cost.

MP expenditure could be thus:

• Shadowbringer on a one-charge system
• Carve and Spit/Abyssal Drain merge suggestion as stated above
• Edge/Flood
• The Blackest Night

2b) Bloodspiller and Quietus are only uninteresting because we spam it so much.

You mention Salted Earth being a root cause of causing an overweaving issue along with Salt and Darkness feeling like it's meant to be a finisher, but falling flat because of potency, which is not the case.

• Your idea for Salted Earth doesn't change anything because it doesn't solve the issue of the boss moving outside of the puddle. Salted Earth should have some other interaction and stay. That, or just bring Scourge back as a GCD, replacing Salted Earth and Salt and Darkness and make it an aoe DoT we use every 30s that costs 20 Blood gauge. It would kill not two, not three, but FOUR birds in one stone.
  1. oGCD bloat reduction
  2. Blood Gauge having more meaningful usage since we would need to ensure we have 20 gauge for an important ability
  3. Adds a GCD for a much needed change of pace
  4. even if slight, more interesting downtime
• Salt and Darkness is a mediocre ability with a mediocre animation that only serves as yet another oGCD that feels slapped on to DRK's kit, which DOES cause an over-weaving issue. Nothing about it feels like a finisher.
• Bloodspiller feels much more like it should be a finisher given it's animation, we just got bored of it because of how often we use it. If they're gonna give us any aoe finisher combo, make something of Bloodspiller and either remove Quietus or use it in some form during the combo.
• I criticize Living Shadow a lot now for reasons beaten to death, but to safe..It is just a press and forget overglorified DoT, and I still hold that opinion. However...between LS and S&D, Living Shadow at least holds some identity lorewise.

3) DRK is fantastic defensively, it doesn't need another physical damage mit because of TBN.

• I get why people are suggesting Oblation merging with Dark Mind, it's to reduce button bloat, but it makes far more sense to merge it as an evolution for TBN, as I've stated numerous times. Oblation already feels like it's meant to weaved with TBN. The HP gains we get from power creep has far more to do with TBN not popping than a mere 10% mit does. You even suggested to give TBN more mitigation later on. Dark Mind is incredibly powerful where applicable, and DRK has been known for being the most magic defensive tank, and that's some semblance of whatever identity is left I'd like to keep.
• Bringing Shadowskin back as a low level TBN IS, however, a good change I've suggested as well. The upgrade path should be Shadowskin->The Blackest Night->Oblation.
• It doesn't make sense to make oblation a 1,200 potency heal, the animation itself implies it's a dark barrier protecting you. Moving the mp to that isn't something they would do either, because it would be 3k that could've been used on edge/flood.
• To give DRK some sustain to help it where needed, again, just revamp Blood Price into something that pools damage taken up to a certain heal potency and when it reaches that potency, it heals you for that amount. It would also heal you for whatever WAS pooled at the end of the duration if that condition was not met.

edit: After re-reading a few times, I thought of an issue some people may find with a suggestion i listed above, particularly Scourge returning as a 30s Dot costing 20 gauge. Which may bring up the question of "But we need 50 gauge for Living Shadow in our opener"

Some solutions would be:

• Make it free to use (the least interesting, but simple, option)
• Make Blood Weapon immediately grant 50 blood gauge on top of it already generating gauge
• Make Delirium immediately give 50 Blood Gauge on top of granting the hypothetical Bloodspiller combo for free

[ItsUrBoi]

I get why people are suggesting Oblation merging with Dark Mind, it's to reduce button bloat, but it makes far more sense to merge it as an evolution for TBN, as I've stated numerous times. Oblation already feels like it's meant to weaved with TBN. The HP gains we get from power creep has far more to do with TBN not popping than a mere 10% mit does. You even suggested to give TBN more mitigation later on. Dark Mind is incredibly powerful where applicable, and DRK has been known for being the

If you merge TBN with Oblation you are just making it harder to gain Dark Arts. That's the reason the developers decided to make it a separate button to begin with. Merging it with Dark Mind doesn't mean you are making DRK be no longer the "Magic defensive tank" but you are perhaps helping it in level 70 content where you don't really see the bonus of that?

If anything:
-> Either make Delirium a combo like PLD's Requiescat combo / GNB's Gnashing fang combo OR make it an entirely new thing that is NOT Inner Release but for DRK nor a combo - something unique. ( ex: Converts Darkside into Blood, prevents gaining Darkside but you gain Blood ). Inner Release on Warrior is somewhat cool because of the Fell Cleave critical hit being its identity and the really cool visual effects. DRK has none of these.

->Move C&S and AD to be GCDs with a short cooldown ( 20 seconds ) Their cooldown being tied is alright since you'd wanna use either depending on the situation.

->Add some form of sustain. It can be either a new ability that heals you instantly consuming Darkside or "Enhanced Dark Arts" which would make the free Edge/Flood of Shadow heal you.

->Merge the defensive cooldowns. Either upgrade TBN into Oblation or Dark Mind and Oblation together. For the first part a decent work around would be to change TBN to be "a barrier equal to a heal of 1200 potency"

->Living Shadow change to be No Mercy but cooler visual effects please?

[Zairava]

If you merge TBN with Oblation you are just making it harder to gain Dark Arts. That's the reason the developers decided to make it a separate button to begin with. Merging it with Dark Mind doesn't mean you are making DRK be no longer the "Magic defensive tank" but you are perhaps helping it in level 70 content where you don't really see the bonus of that?

If anything:
-> Either make Delirium a combo like PLD's Requiescat combo / GNB's Gnashing fang combo OR make it an entirely new thing that is NOT Inner Release but for DRK nor a combo - something unique. ( ex: Converts Darkside into Blood, prevents gaining Darkside but you gain Blood ). Inner Release on Warrior is somewhat cool because of the Fell Cleave critical hit being its identity and the really cool visual effects. DRK has none of these.

->Move C&S and AD to be GCDs with a short cooldown ( 20 seconds ) Their cooldown being tied is alright since you'd wanna use either depending on the situation.

->Add some form of sustain. It can be either a new ability that heals you instantly consuming Darkside or "Enhanced Dark Arts" which would make the free Edge/Flood of Shadow heal you.

->Merge the defensive cooldowns. Either upgrade TBN into Oblation or Dark Mind and Oblation together. For the first part a decent work around would be to change TBN to be "a barrier equal to a heal of 1200 potency"

->Living Shadow change to be No Mercy but cooler visual effects please?

At any rate, merging Oblation with either Dark Mind or TBN would prevent button bloat in the future, so whichever one they go for is going to be a net positive either way.

The only thing I'll comment on here is that you see the bonus of Dark Mind as early as the chrysalis because its tankbusters are magic damage.

You handled the Delirium, Living Shadow, and merging of defensive cooldowns, nothing needs to be said on my part for those. The rest I'm just going to put my combine with my input for an updated list of suggestions for the dev team.

Either perform ItsUrBoi's suggestion for Carve and Spit/Abyssal Drain, or merge them into a strong aoe on the GCD with a 30s or 60s cooldown to further prevent button bloat issues for the future.

Again, referencing the post above mine, add some form of minor sustain. Let Edge/Flood heal you with Dark Arts or revamp Blood Price to for percentage based healing based on the damage you took, or allow it to pool damage you take until it hits a certain threshold and then it heals you for that amount.
Do something with salted earth, Salt and Darkness was an attempt but feels more like a wasted opportunity since it feels like just another oGCD we need to press.
Another GCD for us to spend gauge on a cooldown, whether that's placed into the Delirium combo abilities as we have suggested or otherwise.
Have some interaction with the darkside timer in itself or just make Darkside a passive. (a couple Delirium changes we suggested a few times would remedy this)

[Oizen]

->Living Shadow change to be No Mercy but cooler visual effects please?

I'd rather have Living shadow as it is now then turning it into a boring 3rd buff skill, on top of Blood Weapon and Delirium, that solely says "do more damage"

[Shurrikhan]

I'd rather have Living shadow as it is now then turning it into a boring 3rd buff skill, on top of Blood Weapon and Delirium, that solely says "do more damage"

Why, though? A DoT, unless specifically given some connecting additional effect that influences the use of another ability or requiring sync into a +%damage CD, doesn't have any interaction. A damage multiplier, on the other hand, inherently advantages syncing (to) it in order to increase the (bonus) potency dealt over that duration. It's... inherently more than any single source of potency.

With Living Shadow a simple oGCD attack, DoT or otherwise, it's one among several. Were Living Shadow a damage window, it'd be DRK's first -- hardly redundant. Neither is unique nor ideal, but the latter is still generally better than the first, I would think, especially if flexible in its timing to better allow for sync and if the typical time to cool would desync from others so that you have a with- and without alternating rhythm.

(No, Blood Weapon and Delirium are not "damage buffs", at least by any typical definition -- i.e., unless you'd also call Bloodspiller or Shadowbringer a damage buff. They're free-casts / resource CDs.)

[Lyth]

...

Worth noting that all of the other short recast upgrades also have a healing effect attached (Catharsis of Corundum/Knight's Benediction/Bloodwhetting's lifesteal). Oblation is just a flat 10% DR cooldown without any healing attached, and you can't even apply it to every TBN if you wanted to.

Not that this is at all hard to work around. Just follow Catharsis of Corundum's design.

The Blackest Night: Creates a barrier around self or target party member totally 25% of target's maximum HP. Duration 7 seconds. Grants Dark Arts when barrier is completely absorbed.
Additional Effect: Grants Oblation to target.
Oblation Effect: Heals X% of damage absorbed by The Blackest Night. When The Blackest Night expires (i.e. due to either damage or the buff duration), grants target a barrier totaling Y% of target's maximum HP.

Now you have parity and you can keep the playstyle.