Dark Knight Megathread

[Oizen]

Not much to say on it til we have full context from the job action trailer. It honestly could range from an animation change to something that solves Dark Knight's sustain issues completely.

[Supersnow845]

DRK’s sustain issues can only be solved by fixing PLD and WAR

[Oizen]

DRK’s sustain issues can only be solved by fixing PLD and WAR

No actually, I'd say theres a unique gap in DRK's sustain thats kinda nasty where during a burst window you're particularly vulnerable, and thats during a burst window where all your MP is being pumped into edges you end up in a situation where you have nothing for TBN and it can be a bit of a hassle in some fights if left unaccounted for.
A confiteor style heal during the burst would go a long way to remedy this. Not that I really expect it to actually heal, but the gap between the healing on DRK and the other tank is so vast that I don't think something like this would be out of place.


I also have no expectations that a tank sustain nerf is ever going to be on the cards unless they specifically change the direction of the game.

[Supersnow845]

No actually, I'd say theres a unique gap in DRK's sustain thats kinda nasty where during a burst window you're particularly vulnerable, and thats during a burst window where all your MP is being pumped into edges you end up in a situation where you have nothing for TBN and it can be a bit of a hassle in some fights if left unaccounted for.
A confiteor style heal during the burst would go a long way to remedy this. Not that I really expect it to actually heal, but the gap between the healing on DRK and the other tank is so vast that I don't think something like this would be out of place.


I also have no expectations that a tank sustain nerf is ever going to be on the cards unless they specifically change the direction of the game.

I mean TBN and edge are both oGCD’s, if you dump all your mana into edge and don’t have TBN that is literally just a flat skill issue, not TBN being underpowered. Drifting a single edge out of the primary burst window because TBN cracked a little late delaying the last edge is literally the single smallest loss of DPS I can functionally imagine that it’s such a non issue

You should be expected to properly meter your resources, not just have your burst cover your healing for you so you don’t have to think about resource arrangement

[Oizen]

I mean TBN and edge are both oGCD’s, if you dump all your mana into edge and don’t have TBN that is literally just a flat skill issue, not TBN being underpowered. Drifting a single edge out of the primary burst window because TBN cracked a little late delaying the last edge is literally the single smallest loss of DPS I can functionally imagine that it’s such a non issue

You should be expected to properly meter your resources, not just have your burst cover your healing for you so you don’t have to think about resource arrangement

Well I do but I'm looking at this from the perspective of what I expect, I have never once felt like feedback has been taken in this game other than very broad strokes, in which DRK sustain complaints has been here for years, and I fully beleive in SE's ability to over-correct the issue. Much like they did with tank damage right now.

Like yeah I'd love to play the game where they make healers not suck, but until yoship goes out on stage and says "we're gonna make healers not suck", I'm going to keep expecting them to suck.
Likewise I see no reason to expect the tank sustain creep to stop, as its not like the devs have even talked about this at all.

[Sazuzaki]

No actually, I'd say theres a unique gap in DRK's sustain thats kinda nasty where during a burst window you're particularly vulnerable, and thats during a burst window where all your MP is being pumped into edges you end up in a situation where you have nothing for TBN and it can be a bit of a hassle in some fights if left unaccounted for.

Can confirm in p10s with the tower-busters appearing right after a burst lol. It used to anger me a lot that I would basically have to sacrifice an edge during a burst window, but looking back on it, I do like how I'd have to actually manage my MP to make sure I had mitigation for the towers right after burst.

[Supersnow845]

Can confirm in p10s with the tower-busters appearing right after a burst lol. It used to anger me a lot that I would basically have to sacrifice an edge during a burst window, but looking back on it, I do like how I'd have to actually manage my MP to make sure I had mitigation for the towers right after burst.

That’s exactly why TBN is the good short CD and the others are bad

You have correctly identified you can’t just spam in the burst window and you need to maintain some mana for a later mechanic, maybe depending on the situation as you get more gear you may be able to shuffle around your mitigation plan to overcome this (big maybe I’m just kinda using it as an example) but it required skill oh your part to recognise how to best use your resources, it’s a consideration that is entirely lacking in the other tanks which makes them feel flat and boring

What’s the point playing a tank if there is nothing dynamic about your gameplay; at the point the other three are at you are basically playing a gimped melee DPS but all your long CD’s are defensives rather than big damage buttons

[Sazuzaki]

That’s exactly why TBN is the good short CD and the others are bad

You have correctly identified you can’t just spam in the burst window and you need to maintain some mana for a later mechanic, maybe depending on the situation as you get more gear you may be able to shuffle around your mitigation plan to overcome this (big maybe I’m just kinda using it as an example) but it required skill oh your part to recognise how to best use your resources, it’s a consideration that is entirely lacking in the other tanks which makes them feel flat and boring

What’s the point playing a tank if there is nothing dynamic about your gameplay; at the point the other three are at you are basically playing a gimped melee DPS but all your long CD’s are defensives rather than big damage buttons

For sure. The reason I still stick with DRK, despite it's rotation being nothing special, is that emphasis on proper defensive CDs. DRK is the only tank that actively encourages you to mitigate and use your defensive CDs, meanwhile the other tanks have so much sustain that they can do just fine by combining any defensive with their short CD with no risk at all. I used to be against TBN costing mana, but damn I think I would just lobotomize myself if they removed the cost. I do still want more mana spenders in our basic rotation though.

A little off topic, I really hate how they're trying to push for a more DPS focus for jobs but not giving us more to do during DPS. Every tank CD feels like a wasted skill slot for what could've been something fun to use. With all the tanks (most likely) getting their 30% mit upgraded in DT, they better all get unique effects and not just free healing. Hot take, I want them to bring back damage gains when main tanking.

[GoatOfWar]

No actually, I'd say theres a unique gap in DRK's sustain thats kinda nasty where during a burst window you're particularly vulnerable, and thats during a burst window where all your MP is being pumped into edges you end up in a situation where you have nothing for TBN and it can be a bit of a hassle in some fights if left unaccounted for.
A confiteor style heal during the burst would go a long way to remedy this. Not that I really expect it to actually heal, but the gap between the healing on DRK and the other tank is so vast that I don't think something like this would be out of place.


I also have no expectations that a tank sustain nerf is ever going to be on the cards unless they specifically change the direction of the game.

I actually like that though, because it puts one job at a disadvantage in certain scenario's to make others shine.
...The problem though, is that only Dark knight is given downsides and unfavorable situations.
Because except for Gunbreaker during downtimes/ boss transitions specifically (and even then, their raw dps buffs have kinda offset the weakness) they immediately remove downsides from the others.
Look no further than the regens on Warrior to deal with the bleeds from Abyssos, designed to make another tank shine for a change, and we can't have that apparently.
The ONE situation where War wasn't the best solution to a mechanic.

[Oizen]

I actually like that though, because it puts one job at a disadvantage in certain scenario's to make others shine.
...The problem though, is that only Dark knight is given downsides and unfavorable situations.
Because except for Gunbreaker during downtimes/ boss transitions specifically (and even then, their raw dps buffs have kinda offset the weakness) they immediately remove downsides from the others.
Look no further than the regens on Warrior to deal with the bleeds from Abyssos, designed to make another tank shine for a change, and we can't have that apparently.
The ONE situation where War wasn't the best solution to a mechanic.

Kinda?I would say Paladin has had its fair share of downsides, a lot of PLD's tools seem to have a higher degree of intentional downsides built into them. Clemency is a damage loss, Wings require precise positioning and is also a damage loss if you try to maximize them, I think its fine.

But in terms of downsides to differentiate tanks, I don't really find that all that engaging.
Like I'm not on the edge of my seat because Dark Mind or Dark Missionary can be removed from your hotbar in about 70% of content in this game, like wow my buttons just arbitrarily don't work now its so engaging, nor do I think the game's identity hinges on Dark Knight and Gunbreaker basically not having a raidwide mit in any content focused on physical damage. (Dungeons, Deep Dungeons, Criterion, ect.)

To me the advantages that make Dark Knight engaging to me is TBN being tied to a resource for Damage and it having almost half the cooldown of the lv 82 mits, it doesnt need to be as strong as those because you're using it twice as much. To me this makes the job way more engaging than the other 3 just trying to maximize it and keeping it all set up for a burst window. Theres a reasonable downside of having it tied to MP, and a reasonable upside of 15s CD compared to 25s. This pairs extraordinarly well with the 2 charge low CD on Oblation, and the low CD on Dark Mind, more like this please.

I don't like differentiating tanks just by putting blatant gaps in their kit and calling it a day. Thats why PLD was so trash for so long in this game due to its inability to take magic. Hell that was a problem through all of Abyssos because HS's increased block chance just didn't work on bleeds, I basically had to baby my OT PLD through it with Oblation to keep his job functional, I'm not crying that was fixed. Likewise, I've been playing DRK a lot in lv 70 ultimates and its not ENGAGING to me to just not have a raidwide mit at all, it feels bad and like the job I'm playing is a throw pick compared to other options for no reason other than arbitrarily not having a button for a situation.