Dark Knight Megathread

[ItsUrBoi]

I gave this a bit of thought and realized that perhaps the return of older abilities might make the job better ( with some tweaks ). Here are a couple of examples I thought about thoroughly.

1. Scourge, 20 sec CD, GCD. No combo requirements. Does 450 potency.
Works similar to Goring Blade, but on a shorter CD. The job needs GCDs and introducing a different combo path is tricky but a new high damage high frequency GCD would be welcomed.

2. Dark Mind changed to grant 10% magic mitigation and 10% physical. Upgrades into Oblation at level 82 which grants 20% magic mitigation and 10% physical on 2 charges with a 45 second charge CD.
They do the same thing and its kind of bloating the hotbar.

3. Sole Survivor: Marks target with the status Another Victim. If that target should be KO'd in battle before the effect expires, 30% of your maximum HP and MP will be restored. If the effect expires first, 20% of your maximum HP will be restored instead. 60s CD. Lasts 10s.
The problem with this skill was that before it would be used on cooldown for the damage, now you'd really only use it in dungeons ahead of time to make sure you do not die, and in Ultimate before the boss dies or in any 1 boss encounter ( Extreme / Savage ) where you will need healing.

4. Blood Price could return as a trait that activates whenever you use an attack that normally consumes blood healing you for a potency of 300. This would be extremely useful in raids when you want to heal yourself over time as you take auto attacks as you do a lot of bloodspiller. This trait could also make it so that when you are in combat you generate 1 blood every 3 seconds, and 1 blood when hit. Dungeon situations would allow the use of more Bloodspiller which would heal you.

5. Delirium could maybe grant you the execution of a special 3 part combo that starts with Bloodspiller only when Delirium is active. Otherwise normally Bloodspiller works the same way it does now. Quietus removed, AoE fall off damage added to Bloodspiller.

6. Blood weapon and Delirium could be moved down to 40 sec CD along with Carve and spit, as to better increase frequency and reduce the amount of 1-2-3 you do since you are using them more frequently.

[SargeTheSeagull]

I've spent some time thinking about HW DRK (I only played it up to like 48 before Stormblood) and watching old VoDs and shit would that be more fun than what we have now. I had totally forgotten about scourge and old delirium's combo. I also miss how much resource management played into DRK (and jobs now generally). Now DRK's resource management is just "stay between 3k and 6k MP and don't overcap blood gauge." If they brought back the old delirium combo and scourge, changed their effects to play into the blood gauge or living shadow DRK could be tons of fun again. Maybe scourge lets you generate extra MP on the target for a few seconds, maybe delerium keeps living shadow out longer, maybe spinning slash makes your next few GCDs generate more gauge, something like that. Maybe some of these could consume part of darkside's duration so DRK has more to keep track of.

[Lyth]

I do understand the nostalgia of the old animations, even if they are around 10 years old at this point. But if you were adding three new actions with the new expansion, would you really want to see Scourge re-implemented as a stand-alone 60s recast Sonic Break/Goring Blade equivalent? Scourge itself existed at a time when single target DoTs interrupted your combo and your combo length itself was variable (due to Blood Weapon's haste effect). You can't take it out of that context and expect it to have the same effect on gameplay.

Any 'upgrade' to Dark Mind is going to come with a fairly substantial nerf in its recast. It's the same as with TBN. Just leave sleeping dragons lie.

Blood Price is probably the most interesting effect out of the ones discussed. I could see a 'Dread Spikes' type ability being added where you can heal back a portion of damage dealt to you. I don't think you could directly copy FFXI's version, but it may be case of 'heal back X% of the damage dealt to you in the past Y seconds'.

DRK does need more GCD actions, though. I'm hoping that they add on a combo action that follows Bloodspiller, because that by extension will influence Delirium as well. It would also be nice to see some form of burst finisher (Level 100 seems like the best time to bring out Omnislash and Lionheart). And all tanks could do with a second look at their mobility tools. Melee is miles ahead at this point.

[Zairava]

I do understand the nostalgia of the old animations, even if they are around 10 years old at this point. But if you were adding three new actions with the new expansion, would you really want to see Scourge re-implemented as a stand-alone 60s recast Sonic Break/Goring Blade equivalent? Scourge itself existed at a time when single target DoTs interrupted your combo and your combo length itself was variable (due to Blood Weapon's haste effect). You can't take it out of that context and expect it to have the same effect on gameplay.

DRK does need more GCD actions, though. I'm hoping that they add on a combo action that follows Bloodspiller, because that by extension will influence Delirium as well. It would also be nice to see some form of burst finisher (Level 100 seems like the best time to bring out Omnislash and Lionheart). And all tanks could do with a second look at their mobility tools. Melee is miles ahead at this point.

I could think of multiple methods of bringing back those old animations, including reworking the actual job itself. I don't care if Scourge comes back as even just a 30s flat damage CD because it would still be at least something during downtime. There's definitely much better ways to revive it, though. (Making a Delirium-activated combo, DRK Death's Design or just a DoT (as a GCD), see my ideas for Dark Arts Revival, etc).

For Power Slash I think it's most likely they would just make it an upgrade for Souleater or put it in the hypothetical Delirium combo.

Any 'upgrade' to Dark Mind is going to come with a fairly substantial nerf in its recast. It's the same as with TBN. Just leave sleeping dragons lie.

Blood Price is probably the most interesting effect out of the ones discussed. I could see a 'Dread Spikes' type ability being added where you can heal back a portion of damage dealt to you. I don't think you could directly copy FFXI's version, but it may be case of 'heal back X% of the damage dealt to you in the past Y seconds'.

Nah, we know they would do that, it just makes sense to do so to make room for more abilities. (Hopefully GCD's)

I'm fine with Dark Mind as is, but I'm of the opinion TBN feels like it should upgrade into Oblation. It's confusing as to why they didn't, everywhere you would use TBN you would use Oblation anyway (and neither is it hard to break the shield in said applications). You could make the argument for autos...I guess? Good luck getting that consistent unless there's a room wide aoe coming.

Blood Price being revamped into something that heals you at the end of the duration depending on the damage you took sounds pretty cool though, ngl.

[ItsUrBoi]

You can't take it out of that context and expect it to have the same effect on gameplay.

Yes but right now the job needs 2 things: higher frequency and more GCDs. Bringing Scourge back as a GCD that just does a lot of damage with a short CD ( like 20 secs ) would be fine as it does align with 2 minute burst windows fairly easily. Making it with AoE fall off would also encourage you pressing it in dungeons. You cannot make this new GCD create another combo path as that would you mean either have to generate another buff ( You are already managing darkside and blood! ) and if its there to just do more damage then why would you use Souleater?

Any 'upgrade' to Dark Mind is going to come with a fairly substantial nerf in its recast. It's the same as with TBN. Just leave sleeping dragons lie.

Not always I think. If you keep the current Oblation design of 2 charges with a 60 sec recast per charge and put Dark Mind's 20% magic damage reduction into Oblation it wouldn't change much in terms of how often you use it. I cannot recall a fight where you wouldn't have Oblation ready for a buster and neither Shadow Wall nor Rampart.
At the same time I absolutely hate to have to press 3 buttons or 4 instead of 1 less on a oGCD heavy job, and honestly the mitigation % would be the same as you always use Oblation with Dark Mind anyway if the damage is magical.

I also tend to believe that lowering the CDs of Delirium and Blood weapon down to 40 seconds would be beneficial for more frequency with perhaps merging them into one button as that would give you 1 more space for a new ability, and if you are >70 blood before you go into "Merged Blood weapon and delirium" you just use 1 bloodspiller before anyway. Same applies for Dark Mind and Oblation.

[SargeTheSeagull]

I do understand the nostalgia of the old animations, even if they are around 10 years old at this point. But if you were adding three new actions with the new expansion, would you really want to see Scourge re-implemented as a stand-alone 60s recast Sonic Break/Goring Blade equivalent? Scourge itself existed at a time when single target DoTs interrupted your combo and your combo length itself was variable (due to Blood Weapon's haste effect). You can't take it out of that context and expect it to have the same effect on gameplay.

Oh i said nothing about recast timers or it being a DoT. In fact I overtly hope it isn't a DoT, and doesn't have a 1min recast but plays into DRK's resources somehow. For the record I hate sonic break/goring blade and would love to see them reworked somehow.

[Lyth]

I think if you reintroduced Scourge to the game, the playerbase would expect it to be a DoT and you would get complaints if it wasn't. If you want a new effect, it would be much better to create a new action name and a new animation that perhaps draws on the inspiration of the original without copying it.

The only real benefit that I could see in bringing back Scourge would be if you could implement it as a vampiric debuff that drained HP over time (with Soul Survivor giving you the remainder of the HP if the mob dies with the effect active). Or perhaps you upgrade the Carve and Spit/Abyssal Drain duo into a single high potency AoE with a drain over time effect. I wouldn't be surprised if that pair of abilities ends up being one of their upgrade targets anyways.

I don't really see the point in bringing back Power Slash just to replace Souleater. Especially since the latter is a signature action for DRK across the franchise. I miss DRK's speed boost the most out of all the gameplay changes, and Power Slash was always the slowest part of pre-Shadowbringers DRK. It was also the one move that good DRK players virtually never used, so it just feels wrong on a lot of levels. An additional combo action would be a nice addition, but the place to add it is after Bloodspiller.

While I think Oblation doesn't really have a great niche and would rather see it incorporated into a defensive upgrade, the chances of getting two charges of 20% DR Dark Mind on a 60 second recast seems fairly unlikely when you consider the likes of Camouflage. Unless they make a decision to just upgrade Camo/DM/Thrill/Bulwark together, which would be a waste of an expansion action on all tanks. The only mitigation move that I could see a case for upgrading is Dark Missionary. Just replace it with Runic if it has to be magical themed. Otherwise, just give us a Weapon Break style debuff that works on both damage types.

[Zairava]

I think if you reintroduced Scourge to the game, the playerbase would expect it to be a DoT and you would get complaints if it wasn't. If you want a new effect, it would be much better to create a new action name and a new animation that perhaps draws on the inspiration of the original without copying it.

As long as it feels like it has some actual weight behind it, I guess. What we got in endwalker is quite underwhelming, neither Shadowbringer nor Salt and Darkness feel satisfying to press.

perhaps you upgrade the Carve and Spit/Abyssal Drain duo into a single high potency AoE with a drain over time effect. I wouldn't be surprised if that pair of abilities ends up being one of their upgrade targets anyways.

If they insist on keeping them combined, this is what I expect they'd do (and at this point, I would welcome this change). Would this drain over time be a DoT that heals you for each damage tick?

I don't really see the point in bringing back Power Slash just to replace Souleater. Especially since the latter is a signature action for DRK across the franchise. I miss DRK's speed boost the most out of all the gameplay changes, and Power Slash was always the slowest part of pre-Shadowbringers DRK. It was also the one move that good DRK players virtually never used, so it just feels wrong on a lot of levels. An additional combo action would be a nice addition, but the place to add it is after Bloodspiller.

The only reason why it was barely used was because it was the enmity combo ender. The animation and by name is nothing short of iconic for the job in XIV. If it was the other way around and Power Slash was the dps combo ender, that's what we would have as our current combo ender. As well as if we had the choice between the two, even without the name being tied to animation, most of us would probably swap Souleater's for Power Slash's.

While I think Oblation doesn't really have a great niche and would rather see it incorporated into a defensive upgrade, the chances of getting two charges of 20% DR Dark Mind on a 60 second recast seems fairly unlikely when you consider the likes of Camouflage. Unless they make a decision to just upgrade Camo/DM/Thrill/Bulwark together, which would be a waste of an expansion action on all tanks. The only mitigation move that I could see a case for upgrading is Dark Missionary. Just replace it with Runic if it has to be magical themed. Otherwise, just give us a Weapon Break style debuff that works on both damage types.

Mostly agreed here (but for the love of god if it's combined with something keep Oblation as the ability used for the upgrade. It's the one thing we got this expansion that looks cool to use).

I'm honestly okay with Dark missionary as is since I'm pretty satisfied with being more magic defense capable. I'm indifferent on whether we get it at a lower level or not.

[Lyth]

...

The problem with Shadowbringer/Salt and Darkness is that they're just damage oGCDs, which we already have plenty of. There's nothing there that really changes gameplay or makes the job play differently. It's quite easy for them to just add in new animations and leave the job the same for minimal effort.

The question to ask is what is the biggest gameplay improvement we can achieve by adding in a single action? We've identified that the relative lack of GCDs (4 single target/3 AoE) is an issue. You could expand on the existing combo system, but then how do you do that? You could branch a combo off of Syphon, or use two out of your three actions to branch a combo off of Hard Slash. But most of these possibilities are just going to be damage combo vs. maintenance combo that we get on so many jobs. You could also use a fixed recast GCD like we've described for Sonic Break/Goring Blade, or the various MCH tools. Scourge would fit into this category, and yes, I'd suggest that it incorporate a DoT effect that does lifesteal over time (and gives you burst healing if the target dies).

Yet another option is to add on a second step to follow Bloodspiller. What makes this interesting is that you not only have a resource-gated second combo, but it also changes up your GCD sequence during Delirium as well, because it transforms it into a 6 step sequence. Bonus points if Delirium grants blood moves a 1.5s GCD, in honor of the old Blood Weapon, leading into a finisher. And again, while you can re-use plenty of animations from the past (including Power Slash), I'd rather that they actually invest the effort into making fresh animations. Do you remember the Shadowbringers benchmark that they released? During the introductory sequence, the Warrior of Darkness performs a series of empowered sword slashes that we never see again. If they can do it for a single cutscene that isn't even in the base game, then I expect to see them put in the effort into the update. Not just Power Slash 2 with more sparkles.

I dislike Dark Missionary for the fact that it has the single silliest name out of any action in the game, for the fact that it's exactly identical to Heart of Light, and for the fact that both are consistently inferior to the options that PLD and WAR have despite being on the same recast.

[Zairava]

Snip

I actually agree with shadowbringer, I feel like if the animation was slowed down a smidge and it was moved to being a GCD it would feel better. (and if they keep the darkside timer. make it cost 15s or so)

I'm still unsure how to feel about Salt and Darkness, it feels like a missed opportunity to make Salted Earth something more than just, as you said, for damage and really nothing else.

If we're going to give Delirium the haste effect that old Blood Weapon had, why not merge Delirium with Blood Weapon, or vice versa? Blood weapon would be more than just enough mana for another edge/flood and Blood Gauge generation, and Delirium would be something more than just use the same thing three times.

Though, with "using the same thing three times" being the core issue with that ability in the first place, implementing that series of empowered sword slashes from the Shadowbringers benchmark with a 1.5 GCD sounds pretty enticing.