Healers need an overhaul

[AmiableApkallu]

If you like SGE that's fine, but I really don't think it successfully captures the DPS healer sales pitch that we were given about the job.

As far as I'm aware, that was never the sales pitch for the job.

[ty_taurus]

As far as I'm aware, that was never the sales pitch for the job.

I don't recall which interview it was in, but I do firmly remember someone asking the question about players who want more DPS options on Healers, and Yoshida's response was something to the respect of 'Sage is the new healer that places higher emphasis on attacking. We believe if you're looking for a more offensive healer, this job should satisfy you.'

[AmiableApkallu]

I don't recall which interview it was in, but I do firmly remember someone asking the question about players who want more DPS options on Healers, and Yoshida's response was something to the respect of 'Sage is the new healer that places higher emphasis on attacking. We believe if you're looking for a more offensive healer, this job should satisfy you.'

Isn't that in the thread I just linked to? Except with an interpretation of Yoshida's response that I think mischaracterizes what he actually said.

Even if not, "higher emphasis" is not the same as "the job's main emphasis," and "more offensive" is not the same as "offensive." It's about relative differences.

The current Kardia is exactly inline with a "more offensive healer" when you compare it to the other healers. It doesn't make SGE a "offensive healer", sure, but even in your recollection, that wasn't the sales pitch.

[ty_taurus]

Isn't that in the thread I just linked to? Except with an interpretation of Yoshida's response that I think mischaracterizes what he actually said.

Even if not, "higher emphasis" is not the same as "the job's main emphasis," and "more offensive" is not the same as "offensive." It's about relative differences.

The current Kardia is exactly inline with a "more offensive healer" when you compare it to the other healers. It doesn't make SGE a "offensive healer", sure, but even in your recollection, that wasn't the sales pitch.

I don't think's true though. Having sustain gained through DPS doesn't actually do anything to change the playstyle or DPS frequency of SGE in contrast to the other healers. Even if we want to say that our interpretation of what he's said is a mischaracterization, I don't think any interpretation of describing SGE as an "offensive" healer is any more or less true than describing WHM as an offensive healer. It's like saying, "these bananas are vegan and gluten free!" Cool, so are all other bananas.

[tearagion]

Isn't that in the thread I just linked to? Except with an interpretation of Yoshida's response that I think mischaracterizes what he actually said.

Even if not, "higher emphasis" is not the same as "the job's main emphasis," and "more offensive" is not the same as "offensive." It's about relative differences.

The current Kardia is exactly inline with a "more offensive healer" when you compare it to the other healers. It doesn't make SGE a "offensive healer", sure, but even in your recollection, that wasn't the sales pitch.

yeah "scholar, but more boring and not as good" doesn't really sell a job as well as "more offensive healer" or "higher emphasis on damaging abilities", can you really blame them?

[ForteNightshade]

As far as I'm aware, that was never the sales pitch for the job.

Let's dissect that quote though because Yoshida has some... rather awful takes.

Yoshida: So I totally understand that those healers that have a very high player skill level and they’ve really mastered their jobs go into these different raids or battles and when they do have some downtime between their heals they do cast more offensive spells. Some of them desire to have more technical aspects of it so they are more active and I totally understand that sentiment. But of course the basis of a healer is to heal so I think the development team and I have this thinking of getting that sense of exhilaration from doing really good heal work.

That being said I don’t think we would do any sort of dramatic addition of offensive skills moving forward. By having these offensive abilities some players, like new healers, might feel pressured like “oh do I have to have good DPS while I’m healing?” or some players might be aggressive like “oh hey you have an offensive skill in your kit, why don’t you use it?” and I don’t think that’s optimal either.

But of course we do have the new job, Sage, which will allow for this unique gameplay where if you land an attack it heals at the same time. Or if there’s like a particular barrier ability that you cast and once that’s depleted it increases the resource which could lead to an attack which is very unique. I think players would be interested in trying that out for sure.

Imagine if tanks and DPS could just not press their buttons and it be seen as "aggressive" to tell them otherwise. How about tanks feeling "pressured" to do DPS while mitigating incoming damage? Heaven forbid someone might have to.... now everyone may want to sit down. This is kind of shocking. You might have to... press Glare, Dia and Aero III. I know, I know, it's too much! You might even have to press another oGCD in between them! Wait, wait! What if... you had to press them 1-2-3 and they built up into a bigger hit. OH. MY. GOD. How would you ever ask someone to put that much pressure on themselves?!?!

But wait. Doesn't that sequence of buttons sound a little familiar?

Congratulations! I just described to you Warrior's rotation.

[Midareyukki]

Congratulations! I just described to you Warrior's rotation.

Well that's just not fair, poor guys have to press Storm's Eye every now and then. So it's 1-2-4 every... what, 3-4 combos? :^) Plus the Fell Cleave spam. You're describing Dark Knight, just watered down and with less OGCDs.

Ok but no seriously, Yoshida... <_< is he aware that he answered his own argument? "Oh, healers have figured out a way to optimize everything in a fight and want more to do between casts. Because that might make them obssess with minmaxing damage. The main purpose is to heal".

Yeah, if healers know the main purpose is to heal, then wouldn't optimizing and being experient in healing through a fight be the first thing? They'll be focusing on damage eventually, might as well give them those tools. And if you insist that healers need to heal, then fine, design fights that don't expect healers to do damage but reward healers for doing so. In fact, you can't clear Savage without healer damage at minimum item level, right? So that's kind of the mindset they already have. Why allow something to continue being boring just because you're afraid of taking it overboard? There are ways around it, plenty of games address this with interesting skills and designs.