Quote Originally Posted by Renathras View Post


My god, you can't believe this, can you?

Many people love healing as it is right now. They're part of EVERYONE, and they would most definitely not win. I hate healers in PvP other than WHM, and barely that, because I have no heals I can actually use. The CD on Cure is painful for a person that main heals. There are no healers in PvP and I hate it. The only Job I can even somewhat stand to play is WHM because it has some more healing than the others, but barely, and it requires you blitzing into melee (and often certain death in Frontlines) just to use Cure 3. Your functional Medica 2 comes from using LB. It's totally stupid. It's a garbage system. The PvP rework overall is okay, but what they did to healers was brutal. There's barely any HEALING in PvP now, and that sucks arse.

They did great on tanking and damage dealers in PvP - because the Devs clearly love Tanks and DPS but hate Healers - but they did Healers super dirty in PvP. Every single healer has to be a melee warrior and none of them have distance openers, and SCH doesn't even have a gap CLOSER to get into melee in the first place. I can't see why anyone thinks healing in PvP now is enjoyable. It's passable on WHM but total garbage otherwise. If that came to PvE, I'd either quit healing or quit the game outright.

You people that want and love that aren't healers. You're damage dealers in healers' clothing.
PvP healers ARE healers. Healing in PvP is literally the healer definition in MOBA games. You have to stop looking at PvP the same way as PvE because PvP is fighting against real players, not scripted monsters that repeat the same mechanics.

The big key difference between healing in PvE and healing in PvP is that PvE is ridiculously lenient in what mistakes players make against an scripted enemy, as opposed to PvP - which is more strictly based on team effort with real players and unique gameplay identity. Each mistake in PvP has a huge cost to overall team performance, and this is what separates players from being good and bad in ranked gameplay. Instead of extending player's "mistakes" forever until the next burst window (old PvP Cure spam + med kits), the new PvP shortens these skirmishes by removing this nonsensical delay on every role (recuperation now costs MP and has limited uses, healers have more burst healing potential) and instead make healing more impactful on timing and usage, resulting in shorter Crystalline Conflict matches and faster gameplay for everyone to enjoy.


- If everyone on PvP is doing well (including the other team), the impact of your healing is absolutely noticeable because you'd be able to draw out fights long enough to start pushing the crystal when the enemy has to start retreating due to the difference of self-sustain made up by having a healer.

- If everyone on PvP is doing decent, the impact of your healing becomes relatively noticeable because your team would be coming out on top of skirmishes.

- If your team is doing poorly compared to the other team, the healing would be just enough to offset the enemy team's damage comparatively, but won't seem "noticeable" besides to the healer.

- If your team is doing absolutely terrible (not bothering to use recuperation), then no amount of healing in Old PVP (med kits replacing recuperation) and the new PVP will save them.

This is why PvP healing gets a dramatic impact based on how well and how badly the team is performing when healers are using them effectively. This is what makes PvP GOOD by design. Healers are there to tilt the scales, but in a teamfight between players, they are not the only caveat that determines whether the team wins or fails. Teamwork and team coordination is still the main key factor to winning in PvP.

The reason why old PVP was bad is because it literally treated your enemies as scripted mobs with the same mechanics (A.K.A PVE mechanics). All that damage can just be healed through and ignored. DPS is basically useless outside of coordinating in a burst window because of the ridiculous amount of healing that healers can throw at everyone.

The reason why this gameplay works is because short of removing all abilities that are redundant in PvP when everyone is playing properly, you're left with a very small subset of abilities that only healing can cover and make up the difference. This frees up healers to also gain back their old "support-oriented" gameplay, except the support-oriented gameplay is not all just damage % modifiers anymore. We get back some crowd-control abilities and At least in PvP, healers all function uniquely. No one healer is a carbon copy of another and requires a completely different mindset to play another. This is completely opposite to PvE healing, because you have so much excess healing skills + 2 button DPS skills that each healer fundamentally functions the same in the vast majority of content.


Case in point:
Have you seen how effective a good SCH LB works? It removes debuffs (saving 1 purify usage) and doubles as an HP extender. An absolute burst defense skill. Especially in Frontlines. Good SCHs can directly mitigate the effect of multiple Bahamuts and give everyone enough time to recuperate and survive.

WHM LB is a gamechanger because of how you can stun the enemy team while increasing the damage/healing output of your team. Out of the 4 healers, this one is the most offensive oriented and simplistic to use.

AST LB directly applies a 30% damage mitigation buff, reducing all burst attacks on any player for a set duration. Combined with their Macrocosmos + their Ewer Draw, it directly improves the state of their healing and survival without being a carbon copy of WHM or SCH by maximizing the effectiveness on a singular AoE delayed heal while bolstering each player's potential to heal to damage on their own accord.

SGE LB makes it so the team take 0 damage if the enemy tries to attack while you are inside your LB. If they walk in to fight, they have to take a huge DoT Debuff, making it very advantageous for your team. It's not overpowered either due to the long charge time and limited space to utilize it. A good team can directly push the crystal far, win skirmishes, and even secure the game with it. A bad team will not use it effectively and end up wasting the game-changing skill.

Plus, unlike PvE, no role is 'forced' or required in PvP. There is no strict composition of 1 tank, 1 healer, 2 DPS. It's more balanced so that everyone have a form of limited self-sustain, but no role is "required" in a team - instead they're just a role with a unique playstyle & function like every other job.

Meanwhile, PvE healers... you have the tank directly do your job for you and act as the second healer. PLD can self heal themselves in Endwalker. WAR can straight up start ignoring the healer near the end of Heavensward and start healing the party by Shadowbringers. Teamwork only exists to handle mechanics and align buff windows. That's literally it. There's no actual coordination or strategy to PvE gameplay anymore. No support mechanics other than a % damage increase or a % mitigation buff to survive a fatal hit. The one good thing about healers in Endwalker is how SCH gained Expedience and AST gained Macrocosmos, making them stand more unique in toolkit.... assuming you ever need it when your tanks can handle all the mitigation and healing for you in most content.

Translating PvP healers to PvE healers does not necessarily force all healing to be removed because both content plays differently. PvE can still accommodate plenty of healing skills. However, the same exact 2 button DPS rotation that literally exists with each healer from level 4 to 90 needs to go.