[Petition] Have Naoki Yoshida Play Healer and take off the DPS Gloves for a year.

[NekoMataMata]

This wouldn't fix anything. Maybe in pvp if you're concerned about that but in the rest of the game the only improvements that would be made would be for the next expansion, or maybe some small adjustments towards healer content in this expansion.

Seriously, take a look at BLM's kit outside of pvp. Look at the mess it is prior to around level 50ish. Look at how much instantly becomes redundant around that time. Yes, it's perfectly fine for endgame, it's doing incredibly well in endgame pve and pvp, but the leveling process is gross, as if they swept all the problems the job had in its earlier levels under the rug. It's not even a level sync issue, where most classes feel bad. No it's incredibly awkward as a whole.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

Real healers have more than cursory kit interactivity. They have more to do in downtime than spam Glare a gazillion times. They have abilities that feel impactful and meaningfully advance an encounter. They have more than just lolmedica2 and Afflatus Overheal. YOU don't want a real healer. You want to be carried through hard content on a superfluous role on training wheels.

This statement really made me ponder whenever I peer over the history of changes over the healer role from past expansion to its current iteration: who the hell they're making these changes for?

Ultra-casuals? It cannot be, because they don't even press anything beyond their Cure, Cure II, Regen, and Medica II. All the superfluous newer buttons only serve to confuse these folks further.
Hardcore optimizers? It doesn't make sense because this type of players are typically the ones that cares much less about gameplay nuances and will take it as a challenge to grow better. These players know that good performance is only a matter of time so long they keep trying to improve.

What these changes for, it seems more about lowering the barrier of entry toward mid-high end contents to not scare off newer players. The thing is, why do you even bother to learn to play job properly when they're just going to take it away after certain amount of complaints(?) reeling in? In the end these changes are more for players who wants to participate in higher end content but does not care enough about improving---it's not to make players who actually put effort into learning and loving the job ins & outs happier.

[Sebazy]

God this is going to be long. Oh well, there are quotes with pictures so you can read reply and make what rebuttals you wish. Though try to actually address arguments, not make straw man caricatures nor ad hominem insults on the person. You people style yourselves as reasonable and rational: Time to act like it.

Is taking someone's desire not to press 1 150+ times in a single duty and somehow coming to the conclusion that they are elitists who want to gatekeep and deny casuals from content reasonable and rational?

[Visanis]

#makeSCHgreatagain
#makeWHMamazingforonce
#bringbackASTcardsandtimemagic

[Liam_Harper]

This is why they're so aggressive in their arguments.

It's a great life in the Sylphie imaginary bubble. You twiddle your thumbs half a fight and poke Medica II a bit for the other half and now you're a REAL HEALER.

And here we are trying to pop that bubble with logic and drag them down from the illusionary throne into reality.

God this is going to be long.

Aaaand there it is...

[Banriikku]

@ Renathras
You are missing one point: Healing is not rewarded. In FF14 healing is baniry = enough or not. You will gain nothing if you keep your group at 100 %, if 51 % is enough. Its simple and you can test it yourself. For that reason we "healers" ask for something to do aka more dps options BUT NOT MORE DPS, just more options. I dont want hit glare more than a tank auto attacks the whole fight thats not fun and healing a target that doesnt need healing is also not fun.

Next part is "why do you ask for DPS and not a change in healing" ?
BECAUSE YOSHIDA himself, the man, our god and savoir said: NO to more healing in the LAST LIVE LETTER. So we ask for something that will most likely to happen.

[IDontPetLalas]

I was waiting for it :


"I literally USE ALL MY SKILLS, even the ones that lead to my certain death. It's still spin. Healers in PvP are not Healers, they're support DPSers. Which is why most of you that are anti-PvE Healers love them, because you want to play support DPSers, not Healers. That's my point.

That said, I'd LOVE them to actually make a dedicated support role in the game. It wouldn't even really be that hard to flag NIN, BRD, DNC, and AST as "Support" to fill out that role in a 4 man party and have 1-2 of them standard in 8 mans and 24 mans (per party). I think that's what people really want, they just aren't sure how to ask for it and somehow feel people telling them this is an insult.

And no, WHM LB will not kill a SMN outright. Believe me, I've tried. The number of times I've hit a SMN with LB, AND Misery, AND Miracle to prevent them healing, AND Seraph to try and finish them off...and then they run off as I try to finish them with Glare, get 100% -> 0% within 5 seconds from their entire party jumping me (what with Seraph taking me into the middle of their line with the melee and tanks) and that my party seems to decide to focus on the PLD with invuln instead...let's just say that happens a LOT in Frontlines. All it takes is the SMN popping Guard right as my LB goes off and they basically can survive anything. WHM isn't MCH or SAM.

And yes, in Frontlines, Seraph is a suicide mission unless you're exclusively using it as the enemy line breaks or some enemy stupidly charged into YOUR party with something like Seraph Strike."




No, my friend, if anything, you are the spin doctor. It really reads like you keep doing the same thing over and over that doesn't work and expecting a different outcome, Probably because you don't like the recent changes to PVP. You also consequently don't even believe that you can actually put out significant amounts of healing if necessary. It may surprise you that I agree- we are more support that the old PVP healer- BUT at least on WHM and on AST you should be able to heal for quite a bit, and without "suiciding" particularly on AST. A good SCH can also really be excellent against a couple of summoners.

So by all means keep spinning this "I know what a real healer is" and ' you guys are all anti-PVE healers" if it makes you feel better. It won't help you in PVP, the only way is to try something different and to see if that works better.

[Nizzi]

Not sure if you agree or disagree, but FOR THE SAKE OF ARGUMENT: Suppose FFXIV introduced a Support DPS role that focused on buffing allies, debuffing enemies, had some limited healing (think SMN's Phoenix where it has an AOE, Medica 2 attached, and also has an Excogitation - but suppose this was usable at any point you want in your rotation). IF such a thing was introduced, do you think you'd want to try it out or play it? Basically, think HW/SB SCH of it was stuck in Cleric Stance 100% of the time (remember back in the day, Lustrate was a 25% health heal regardless of Cleric) and had damage and mitigation buffs like PvP SCH and had the SB era SCH damage kit.

A Support DPS.

Would you like to play that?

Sure, that'd be fun. I enjoy DoTs and tracking stuff like that, and buffing/debuffing is very fun too. That's another reason I hate the gradual pruning of DoTs from every job, healer or otherwise, because I do think they're fun.
Would this role compete with DPS spots at the moment though? Or would it fit in the cohealer spot and let "real healers" focus almost entirely on just healing?
I do want to make one thing very clear though - I want to heal, the game doesn't have enough to heal, so I have to focus on DPS. I enjoy healing when things are going to the point I have to focus on that more than I can focus DPS, but that's few and far between. Etc etc, said it all a million times.

There's not really another option. Either players that can RIGHT NOW clear content will be unable to if they continue their playstyle as it is today OR the content will be clearable by them, in which case those of you doing the extra will find even hard content mindlessly trivial (so much so having 1-2 extra buttons won't placate you), OR the extra button presses will be damage neutral side-grades making them pointless to even press and you will be pissed you aren't being rewarded with more damage.

Not who you were talking to but I've said before and many times I literally do not care how other players play. If you want 100% Medica II uptime? Go for it, that's fine. If you legitimately enjoy only pressing Glare and like that you can clear that way, more power to you. Even in high end content, as long as we're clearing I don't care how you're having fun, just as long as it's not preventing me from having fun as well.
Having extra buttons be minor DPS optimization is fine and could easily be done without breaking anything (except maybe dungeons a little but they already don't balance around dungeons or WAR would be nerfed into the ground) and I would legitimately not mind this at all nor get mad if Broilbots were doing relatively the same amount of damage as me. This is what I love most about Scholar, Energy Drain optimization offers that little bit of nuance in how I handle my healing and my DPS that the other healers don't offer - SCH isn't balanced around dumping all of its Aetherflow into Energy Drain and even being 100% optimal with ED is only like a 5% DPS increase compared to a SCH who doesn't use Energy Drain at all.



This is Miasma's tooltip from Stormblood, unedited outside of me changing the ACN icon to a SCH one. Forgive my math if its wrong, but 24s is 8 ticks (280 potency) plus the upfront damage of the spell cast being 20, ending up at 300 potency. That's only a 5 potency gain over Broil IV; yet I want that back. Obviously if returned it'd probably be changed a little bit so it's not an outright DPS loss if you overwrite it a tick early, but even if they didn't, I still want Miasma back. We can easily have those minor DPS optimizations that are like "yeah just worry about that when you feel more comfortable with healing" that provide ways for veteran players to optimize and improve without breaking balance and while still enabling people to ignore them if they want to. People already don't like Energy Drain and just ignore it, but Energy Drain DOES offer that level of not required optimization that I'm personally looking for and want more of. I'm not looking to flex and say "haha I did more damage than YOU did on this fight!" but I am looking for something that is more entertaining and allows me to keep growing and improve on - casting Broil has quickly become hardcapped and tedious.

I have said it before and I will say it again, likely not for the last time. If they add Miasma and Bane back to current Scholar, I will stop posting here and just go happily enjoy SCH for the rest of the expac. It's obviously not a "full fix" and it wouldn't make SCH perfect but just the fact that will have finally listened and given back something to be a little more entertaining is all I want. I like healing; it's why I play a healer and not a DPS or Tank. I don't like those roles the way I like SCH, I just don't want to be bored to tears when I've got nothing to heal. Give me a few more things to track and it's all I need. It doesn't need to be super complicated, but it needs to be something with a bit more brainpower than 2 refreshes of Bio every minute and Broil for the rest of it.

[FuukaBazooka]

Hi and hello. I've been a lurker on these forums for about a year or two now, but only just made an actual account to comment on something. Specifically:

WHM's damage kit in modern FFXIV is roughly equivalent to Resto Druid's in WoW, and no one is saying that Resto Druids are boring or braindead or have bad DPS kits.

Sorry in advance if I formatted that wrong, but I would like to ask, as someone who is currently taking an (extended) break from FF14 by playing WoW and mains a Resto Druid (admittedly only up to the BfA level cap of 50): when exactly was the last time you've looked into the kit Resto Druid has available to them?

I wouldn't blame you if you haven't, nor anyone who wants to cease affiliation with Blizzard/WoW, but I would like to point out one key thing: while yes, the base damage kit of Resto Druid is nothing to write home about (one spam spell and two DoTs, though one is single target and one is AoE), that's only if you ignore what the Talent system can give you, ranging from 1 to 2 to a whopping 6 extra damage buttons depending on which Affinity you choose. Going more in depth with the current system:

Default: The aforementioned "one spam spell, two DoTs."

Guardian Affinity: Tank form. You get goodies like their mitigation gauge spenders and a passive defense buff, but since DPS is what's being focused on, you get an AoE spam that applies a stacking DoT. Short and sweet, but you're not usually expecting an insane toolkit when you're a healer borrowing from a tank, which is why you'd go for the following two.

Balance Affinity: Ranged caster DPS form. You get the equivalent of AST's Gravity as a new spam nuke, plus a whole new mechanic that strengthens one nuke after using the other, plus a gauge and gauge spender that strengthens the strengthening mechanic. Mucho strengthen.

Feral Affinity: Melee DPS form. This one has a whole list.

In essence, two single target attacks, one AoE spam, two DoTs, and a stun.

I don't mean to cause offense to anyone who already knew all of this, but I would rather not have misinformation be spread (as inconsequential as I realize this entire thing may be), yet I do feel the need to say this: the reason why no one says Resto Druid's damage kits are bad is because, simply put, they are not, and trying to compare it to WHM's kit is to disregard the options that one gives you over the other.

[Beddict]

@ Renathras
You are missing one point: Healing is not rewarded. In FF14 healing is baniry = enough or not. You will gain nothing if you keep your group at 100 %, if 51 % is enough. Its simple and you can test it yourself. For that reason we "healers" ask for something to do aka more dps options BUT NOT MORE DPS, just more options. I dont want hit glare more than a tank auto attacks the whole fight thats not fun and healing a target that doesnt need healing is also not fun.

Next part is "why do you ask for DPS and not a change in healing" ?
BECAUSE YOSHIDA himself, the man, our god and savoir said: NO to more healing in the LAST LIVE LETTER. So we ask for something that will most likely to happen.

Not gonna happen either, Yoshi-P already shot down the idea of adding more offensive options for Healers during downtime back during the Endwalker Media Tour. Here's my post earlier in the thread, has the quote from his group interview with Reddit and MrHappy.

I hope Healer mains keeping making noise and get their wishes fulfilled, but I highly doubt it will happen unless major content creators start roasting the state of healing because he clearly doesn't give a fuck what the people on the Forums have to say.