Hissatsu: Kaiten

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

My problem is that they said they did it for action bloat. The problem is that there are many others ways they could reduce button bloat without removing Kaiten. Combine Shoha 1 and 2 or Guren and Senei.

They mean action bloat, as in, button presses, not button bloat(which is its own issue)


As it is, kaiten is the 2nd most used action (generally tied with shinten) after hakaze.


To me, when it's used that much, it doesn't have much weight behind it. It doesn't "feel good" to me to use it, unlike something like stardiver, which has prep involved and isn't used constantly.

It's a button that only exists to make 2 other buttons do more damage. If it had a cooldown on it to make you use it strategically, sure, but it's not

[Gemina]

And what happens when no one wants to play healer then? Oh wait...

Oh wait, what? What's your point other than leaving behind a rhetorical question like spit on a windshield?

If you're incapable of critical thinking, then just don't try. I understand you like to amuse yourself, but there are adults here as well.

Dropping the job because you don't like how it plays doesn't mean anything and doesn't change anything.

I never said it's supposed to, nor is it my point. Dropping the job however, gives you one less thing to complain about.

[YukiB]

They mean action bloat, as in, button presses, not button bloat(which is its own issue)

As it is, kaiten is the 2nd most used action (generally tied with shinten) after hakaze.

And with its removal, we just use more Shinten.

The "action bloat" is not solved, and the other 2nd most used action is used nearly twice as much.

And what happens when no one wants to play healer then? Oh wait...

Optimistically, SE realizes no one can run endgame content because no one wants to play healer, and makes adjustments to healers.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

And with its removal, we just use more Shinten.

The "action bloat" is not solved, and the other 2nd most used action is used nearly twice as much.



Optimistically, SE realizes no one can run endgame content because no one wants to play healer, and makes adjustments to healers.

50%ish more, which is still a net reduction in skill usage.

[SeaJae]

They mean action bloat, as in, button presses, not button bloat(which is its own issue)


As it is, kaiten is the 2nd most used action (generally tied with shinten) after hakaze.


To me, when it's used that much, it doesn't have much weight behind it. It doesn't "feel good" to me to use it, unlike something like stardiver, which has prep involved and isn't used constantly.

It's a button that only exists to make 2 other buttons do more damage. If it had a cooldown on it to make you use it strategically, sure, but it's not

Guess what is going to be used even more than Hakaze, now that the only other meaningful gauge spender is being removed? So might as well remove Shinten. And then, might as well remove the job gauge. This logic is really detrimental to job design. SAM doesn't have an action bloat problem. So I don't even know why I'm accepting your opinion on what the dev's meant, when the translation was right there on the slide.

[Minarisweet]

Oh wait, what? What's your point other than leaving behind a rhetorical question like spit on a windshield?

If you're incapable of critical thinking, then just don't try. I understand you like to amuse yourself, but there are adults here as well.



I never said it's supposed to, nor is it my point. Dropping the job however, gives you one less thing to complain about.

Ah yes, "stop caring because I don't care either". People really just come to the forums to shit on people that care about the game.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Guess what is going to be used even more than Hakaze, now that the only other meaningful gauge spender is being removed? So might as well remove Shinten. And then, might as well remove the job gauge. This logic is really detrimental to job design. SAM doesn't have an action bloat problem. So I don't even know why I'm accepting your opinion on what the dev's meant, when the translation was right there on the slide.

I dont think you understand how half kaiten + shinten is less than shinten + kaiten.

Hakaze is the most used skill because it starts 3 combos.

Again, you all are over-reacting and using words that spark fear to push your point across. Its not a huge loss.

[Xenon_S]

50%ish more, which is still a net reduction in skill usage.

Top SAM parse in P4S P2 had 33 Kaitens over 6:43 kill time, CPM for kaiten is 4.9
Translate that into 660 Kenki and you get 26.4 Shintens instead, for a reduction of 1 in CPM to 3.9, with the added effect of making the gameplay more braindead

Top SAM in ShB usually have CPM of 47 or higher, and there weren't complaints to action bloat.
Now the top CPM of samurai is just around 46, and all the sudden there exists an action bloat problem.

Samurai, by virtue of their skillspeed buff, and the fact that the kenki gauge cost the spammable skills are 25 or less (compared to most other jobs' gauge dump being 50), will inherently have a high CPM.

If there were no complaints of action bloat in ShB, then there is no argument for action bloat now that the CPM has already been lowered.
And given that there is no action bloat, there is no need to remove kaiten.

Also guess what changed from 4.x to 5.x? they gutted Hagakure and added Tsubame Gaeshi so samurai won't be shinten spamming. Unless the entire kenki system gets reworked, samurais will go back to shinten spams.

[AnnRam]

"Remove to improve" strikes again.

Can't wait when they finally remove tank stances too because in a few years even Genshin Impact gonna have more skills/keys to use than FFXIV

[AziraSyuren]

Man.

They really fucked up job gauges bad by turning almost every skill that uses one into being the only skill that uses one. Job gauge skills are now pretty much normal cooldowns with a different coat of paint that are sometimes slightly easier to unload during burst windows.