Hissatsu: Kaiten

[Faafetai]

Also Im starting ot believe people are straight up jumping to defend no matter what this decision since a lot of people are just saying "it doesn't add complexity"... yet the post itself said its not about that. Just repeating the same thing over and over and pretending other people are idiots for not knowing this is insulting.

It will remove literally the only thing at level 60 that allows the job to have some thought within it. I really don't care how it feels at 90 right now for me personally. Right now it looks like from reading the skills you spend your gauge on 2 things which are each I think a 2 minute window and one other skill you just I guess spam now and movement. I could be off base I am only at level 60 and was really enjoying the job but this might kill it for me. I will have nothing but the movement skills to use the gauge on so no more buffing Higianbana, Meikyo Shisui, or Midare Setsugekka nadda. Even if they buff those skills with Hissatsu: Kaiten passively as an ability it kind of takes the thought of what to use the skill on at that level. It will be (1,2,3), (1,4,5), (1,6) Midare in single target when Meikyo Shisui is off cooldown.

Just remove meditate and the gauge until whatever level at this point it is useless and not worth it to have there anymore. It just makes me upset I finally get to 60 get a job mechanic I can think about and it just get it taken away so I am literally doing the same rotation now at level 60 I was doing at level 50. There will literally be nothing different. It makes me angry because I know the devs are not playing through the leveling experience or thinking about how people are learning the job. They just edit their level to 90 and go from there. If you want to change things at 90 go for it but don't just remove a skills. And no square I am not buying a jump potion if that was the intention for most of these changes.

Misshapenchair hits the nail on the head with why the changes make Samurai and less interesting and well designed job:

https://youtu.be/XIHj-1_Yn1U

I really liked his video and he put the changes in to words better than I ever could. I wish I got sam up to 90 already but have not so I have no clue how it feels at 90. I know the devs just wont give a damn and do whatever they want and never read these forums it just makes me watch as every skill is altered without any thought put into it. They have a board with all the job skills and just close their eyes and whatever it lands on today is the skill removed.

[AziraSyuren]

I think the most tragic thing about the Kaiten removal is that it makes Higanbana a lot less interesting. Reapplying that was the only time I ever felt like resource management was even a meaningful mechanic. But now it's just another DoT that's there to give the job more to do. Which is fine! It's not out of place on Samurai like it was a lot of other jobs that got their DoTs axed, and its 60 second duration along with its sen cost basically makes your entire rotation revolve around it. But spending two resources on it actually made it even more unique and now it doesn't have that anymore.

Sad times.

[Minato777]

you see having a shred of complexity to our jobs can be kinda fun and that not what they are going for with this game. sucks

[Minarisweet]

Its kinda sad people forget jobs can be deep, fit an aesthetic and have a lot of buttons these are not mutually exclusive... but for some reason we have to keep lowering the bar for SE everytime more because they want it easier to "balance" jobs or something.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Its kinda sad people forget jobs can be deep, fit an aesthetic and have a lot of buttons these are not mutually exclusive... but for some reason we have to keep lowering the bar for SE everytime more because they want it easier to "balance" jobs or something.

Having a lot of buttons is not necessarily deep.

Shoha and Shoha 2 being different buttons is not deep.

I feel like people don't understand what deep and complex are, and just think "but all these buttons I have to use and think about makes it deep!"

Its a static rotation. Nothing is deep. Complexity only comes from having to manage the hotbar placement to make sense and be usable. And I'd wager a lot of people complaining about skills going away use plugins to align the fight, CDs, and collapse combos into 1 button.

[Minarisweet]

Having a lot of buttons is not necessarily deep.

Shoha and Shoha 2 being different buttons is not deep.

I feel like people don't understand what deep and complex are, and just think "but all these buttons I have to use and think about makes it deep!"

Its a static rotation. Nothing is deep.

I said deep and have a lot of buttons, not deep because it has a lot of buttons. You might not recognize where im coming from but that's fine.

[Hyuinn]

Having a lot of buttons is not necessarily deep.

Shoha and Shoha 2 being different buttons is not deep.

I feel like people don't understand what deep and complex are, and just think "but all these buttons I have to use and think about makes it deep!"

Its a static rotation. Nothing is deep. Complexity only comes from having to manage the hotbar placement to make sense and be usable. And I'd wager a lot of people complaining about skills going away use plugins to align the fight, CDs, and collapse combos into 1 button.

People may use such plugins, but none of them touched Kaiten, which begs the question why the dev team would prioritize that over any other thing to solve the button bloat.

[Gemina]

People may use such plugins, but none of them touched Kaiten, which begs the question why the dev team would prioritize that over any other thing to solve the button bloat.

My guess is Kaiten being exclusively tied to Iaitjustu skills, which already require Sen to execute. Plus, these skills also have a cast time, and trigger the GCD. So I just named three reasons to get rid of it, and button bloat is not one of them.

I honestly think SAM players will get used to Kaiten being removed. It will take an adjustment, but some will even likely look back and tell themselves it was a tacked on skill. That is not my view, just a conclusion that I predict some will arrive at. Again though, my issue with SAM began long before the decision to remove Kaiten.

[RyuDragnier]

I have no issues with Kaiten going personally, but if they want to lower button bloat, they can go a lot further than this for SAM. Make Ikishoten turn into Ogi Namikiri upon use. Make Senei the level 70 skill, make level 72 a trait that gives it a line AoE cleave with a 50% damage falloff(meaning Guren). Change Shoha to Shoha 2 at Level 82, once again a cleave skill with a 50% damage falloff for all other enemies hit. Right there that's 3 less buttons. Not to say there aren't issues with that idea, since I know there are times and places where you'd rather not line AoE or AoE in general, but there is more they can do to drop the button bloat on SAM.

[Hyuinn]

"Hissatsu: Kaiten" is an integral part of the samurai job fantasy and a highlight of the entire rotation, it has one of the best animations in the entire game that the team should be proud of. Removing it would hurt the experience for me and others by a significant amount, especially when there are numerous other ways of reducing bloat as mentioned in this thread. I really hope the dev team reconsider their decision.