Hissatsu: Kaiten

[Socram]

I'm not even a SAM main (heck mine is not even at 90) but even I will feel the loss of Kaiten just because I think it looks cool af and it feels good to use it, it really feels like I'm charging a big attack

[Crownley]

As I saw commets in other places, they don't need to simplify ALL the jobs, I mean, we already have a "easy mode" in a lot of classes, Dancer/Red Mage/White mage and the new Summoner.
Samurai it's not one of the jobs that need to be simplified, the motive for that? It's simple, Samurai is a hard hitting DPS, the one that deal the most personal damage actually, and it would be unfair to not "punish" poor resource management while the Caster counterpart (Black Mage) is still a hard punishing job in hard content.
If you want to drag yourself through the content, that's fine, pick a "easy mode" class. If you don't want to waste time praticing your rotation on a dummy with DPS, then pick Summoner. If you don't like depth in a class or a game, it's fine, pick up a easy class, but there are people that like the challenge, and they need to be reached too. I agree that there's no "easy mode" melee DPS, but that class must NOT be Samurai. I don't even play Samurai, but it's about empathy you know?

TL;DR: If you don't like in-depth classes that requires training, pick a "easy mode" class.

[DelSolstice]

I've only played SAM very casually, but busting out a full power burst combo on SAM has always been huge fun, and kaiten is a part of that. It will be missed. SAM really isn't overly complex either, it has a relatively low floor to at least be competent.


If they really want to trim a button, they could make Shoha II a proc that follows Shoha I on the same button.

[Divinewindx]

Yes, I'm very saddened to hear about it's removal, and I'm hoping SE back tracks on it.

[NotReallyMistral]

Ngl, I really just came into the forums to say my piece about this.

I still don't understand why people are arguing about Kaiten and its purpose. Yeah, sure, we all use it to really just power up iajutsu, but it's probably the only skill that lets us do constant resource management which, if you're doing your rotation correctly, isn't a problem that you should come across. Also, that person who said Kaiten carries no weight or impact clearly don't understand what Kaiten represents for SAM. It's a cool looking animation, is the only actual skill that makes us manage resources, as slack as that department has been for SAM, and is the only skill (i think it's the only one anyway) where sen and kenki are both actually being utilized which i thought was a cool mechanic.

Don't get me wrong, but honestly, I feel like people who advocate for kaiten removal just don't want to deal with that very simple resource management and just makes us lose another ogcd that actually felt important - and can be very annoying if you make a mistake with wasting kenki when you lose the opportunity to use iajutsu in some situations - and it doesn't feel like a filler unlike shinten. So.....if they don't revert this decision, guess we back to shinten spamming? Just like the ye olde days of 4.0 just without hagakure then. But hey, apparently Kaiten is less important of the two.

[GaleMex]

Yes, I'm very saddened to hear about it's removal, and I'm hoping SE back tracks on it.

I don't.

Samurai has way too many buttons, it's almost crossing the boundary of what a controller can handle.

Kaiten is boring from a gameplay perspective. It just artificially raises the skill floor and punishes you for miscalculating your Kenki. Also a skill that just boosts your next weaponskill isn't really the pinnacle of interesting game design...

[LeonKeyh]

I don't.

Samurai has way too many buttons, it's almost crossing the boundary of what a controller can handle.

Kaiten is boring from a gameplay perspective. It just artificially raises the skill floor and punishes you for miscalculating your Kenki. Also a skill that just boosts your next weaponskill isn't really the pinnacle of interesting game design...

Kaiten isn't a skill floor thing, it's a skill ceiling. You're not punished to the point of uselessness if you miss a Kaiten, it's just there to reward people who are able to calculate it correctly. Boring is subjective and I disagree but I can't really argue that.

As for SAM having too many buttons, I almost agree with you. I play on controller and it's a bit rough, but there are TONS of alternative changes that could be made instead of getting rid of Kaiten:

Make Shoha II replace Shoha and have big attack + fall off damage to enemies around the target
Combine Shinten and Kyuten into a single attack that does high damage + fall off damage to enemies around the target
Combine Guren and Senei into a single attack that does high damage + fall off damage to enemies around the target
Have Tsubame-gaeshi replace Iaijutsu after a cast instead of having it a separate button
Have Ogi Namikiri replace Ikishoten once used

That would free up 5 buttons while not at all changing the gameplay of the job.

[Ransu]

Samurai has way too many buttons

Stop. No they do not.

[GaleMex]

Stop. No they do not.

Imagine being this wrong. Can't be me. Ignore that samurai has 33 buttons and controllers can only fit 32 and that's not including limit break. Samurai and scholar are over the cap.

[Ransu]

Imagine being this wrong. Can't be me. Ignore that samurai has 33 buttons and controllers can only fit 32 and that's not including limit break. Samurai and scholar are over the cap.

16 slots on each cross bar and 8 pages is 128 slots.