6.0 Summoner: Thoughts on an Unsuccessful Rework After 1 Month of Gameplay

[rewd]

Different day, same shit.

Old SMN was clunky and annoying - ✓
Usual buzzwords for "I'm not good at this" and/or "This personally doesn't click with me, so it's clunky". Conveniently turning a blind eye to how Ifrit-Egi, Titan-Egi and Carbuncle are problematic.

Ackchyually old SMN was, like, totally easier than MIN - ✓
Usually coming from people that stop at Expert Roulette and genuinely (how, I don't know) think that there jobs in the game that instead are complex to play at an average level. In Endwalker, of all things.

It's a good thing that we have jobs you can play with a macro! I wish more jobs were like this because Netflix ain't gonna watch itself! - ✓
As we all know, SE is an indie company so asking them to design jobs that can cater to different crowds of players at the same time is probably a tad too much.

[aveyond-dreams]

Different day, same shit.

Old SMN was clunky and annoying - ✓
Usual buzzwords for "I'm not good at this" and/or "This personally doesn't click with me, so it's clunky". Conveniently turning a blind eye to how Ifrit-Egi, Titan-Egi and Carbuncle are problematic.

Ackchyually old SMN was, like, totally easier than MIN - ✓
Usually coming from people that stop at Expert Roulette and genuinely (how, I don't know) think that there jobs in the game that instead are complex to play at an average level. In Endwalker, of all things.

It's a good thing that we have jobs you can play with a macro! I wish more jobs were like this because Netflix ain't gonna watch itself! - ✓
As we all know, SE is an indie company so asking them to design jobs that can cater to different crowds of players at the same time is probably a tad too much.

1. Continuing to insult and belittle people's abilities when it comes to old SMN isn't helping its case much. In any case while those egis are somewhat annoying to use, I don't have much of a problem as long as I'm using them in melee range. These issues then disappear with the level 90 upgrade. So far I have not experienced ghosting with Carbuncle or the demis since launch but if that is the case for some then I hope those issues are resolved.

2. Views vary as to what made old Summoner complex, for me it was due to the fact that I felt like I was fighting more against my keyboard and the systems than the actual boss in front of me, combined with the bugs and glitches that were far more prominent and widespread then compared to now.

3. You can make a macro to play just about any job, in any case no jobs should not have huge barriers to entry like Summoner used to have. "Complex!" gameplay lovers don't get to have entire jobs to themselves, if you want complex gameplay and challenges then Savage and Ultimate are right there.

[tearagion]

1. Continuing to insult and belittle people's abilities when it comes to old SMN isn't helping its case much. In any case while those egis are somewhat annoying to use, I don't have much of a problem as long as I'm using them in melee range. These issues then disappear with the level 90 upgrade. So far I have not experienced ghosting with Carbuncle or the demis since launch but if that is the case for some then I hope those issues are resolved.

2. Views vary as to what made old Summoner complex, for me it was due to the fact that I felt like I was fighting more against my keyboard and the systems than the actual boss in front of me, combined with the bugs and glitches that were far more prominent and widespread then compared to now.

3. You can make a macro to play just about any job, in any case no jobs should not have huge barriers to entry like Summoner used to have. "Complex!" gameplay lovers don't get to have entire jobs to themselves, if you want complex gameplay and challenges then Savage and Ultimate are right there.

sigh...

1. The fact that they gutted the whole pet system and some of the same issues still persist in-game on the current patch should be embarrassing.

2. Sounds like a personal problem as I had no issue piloting SMN before EW, it was objectively more complex due to more systems and those systems interacting.

3. So "Casual!" or "Simple!" gameplay lovers get to have entire jobs to themselves and "Complex!" gameplay lovers get to eat shit? Encounter complexity and Job complexity are two very different things that play off of each other to create more interesting gameplay, which is a strange thing to need to remind anyone of. This isn't a particularly compelling argument either when jobs like BLM can exist where the skill floor and the skill ceiling are both satisfying to reach, and far apart from each other.

[CatboySweatlord]

1. Continuing to insult and belittle people's abilities when it comes to old SMN isn't helping its case much. In any case while those egis are somewhat annoying to use, I don't have much of a problem as long as I'm using them in melee range. These issues then disappear with the level 90 upgrade. So far I have not experienced ghosting with Carbuncle or the demis since launch but if that is the case for some then I hope those issues are resolved.

2. Views vary as to what made old Summoner complex, for me it was due to the fact that I felt like I was fighting more against my keyboard and the systems than the actual boss in front of me, combined with the bugs and glitches that were far more prominent and widespread then compared to now.

3. You can make a macro to play just about any job, in any case no jobs should not have huge barriers to entry like Summoner used to have. "Complex!" gameplay lovers don't get to have entire jobs to themselves, if you want complex gameplay and challenges then Savage and Ultimate are right there.

SMN Was not that complex lmao, all you have to do was precast ruin 3, burn all your Egis, use the raidbuff, do DWT and go into bahamut, after u recast ur dots and save a R4. like that's not complex at all and I wish people who didn't even play the class that much would stop gaslighting players into thinking this job was some gigabrain caster, it was easy as heck, Only hard part comes from opti but that's like every job

[Ransu]

Different day, same shit.

Old SMN was clunky and annoying - ✓
Usual buzzwords for "I'm not good at this" and/or "This personally doesn't click with me, so it's clunky". Conveniently turning a blind eye to how Ifrit-Egi, Titan-Egi and Carbuncle are problematic.

Ackchyually old SMN was, like, totally easier than MIN - ✓
Usually coming from people that stop at Expert Roulette and genuinely (how, I don't know) think that there jobs in the game that instead are complex to play at an average level. In Endwalker, of all things.

It's a good thing that we have jobs you can play with a macro! I wish more jobs were like this because Netflix ain't gonna watch itself! - ✓
As we all know, SE is an indie company so asking them to design jobs that can cater to different crowds of players at the same time is probably a tad too much.

I don't think you understand the definition of clunky....It doesn't translate to "I'm not good at this." Clunky translates to "this is poorly designed and not fun to play." That doesn't mean its hard to play.....because it wasn't. SMN i ShB was not remotely difficult to play, it just played terribly and the interactions with the egi attacks was simply not enjoyable.

[rewd]

I don't think you understand the definition of clunky....It doesn't translate to "I'm not good at this." Clunky translates to "this is poorly designed and not fun to play." That doesn't mean its hard to play.....because it wasn't. SMN i ShB was not remotely difficult to play, it just played terribly and the interactions with the egi attacks was simply not enjoyable.

The point really went over your head like that, uh...

[Ransu]

Apply it to new SMN then. Go ahead. Explain to me how hard it is to find 7-10 disjointed seconds a minute to cast. Explain how hard it is to hold your 2 phoenix festers for a minute to dump in the 2min raidbuffs. I'll wait.

Where have I said new SMN is complex? I don't particularly believe simple is a bad thing and minus some minor issues with new SMN I think its design is good. Could it use a bit more complexity? Sure. Does it need it? No.

The point really went over your head like that, uh...

You didn't have a point. "derr, he said clunky which means hes bad at game!!! I super smart cuz I handle super clunk.....imean complex job well!"

SMN was redesigned for a reason. The developers themselves felt that ShB was unintuitive and didn't flow correctly and that an entire redesign was necessary. I'm sorry that a job you enjoyed was changed. It always sucks when that happens, but sometimes its necessary. Is new SMN the best ever? No, it still needs work. Is it better than old SMN? Depends on the point of view. I personally think its significantly better just in general enjoyment. I didn't find old SMN fun. I found its rotation and general mechanics to be terrible and unintuitive with only its opener being enjoyable.

The argument of "oh he said it wasn't fun or it was unintuitive must mean he sucks at playing the job" is nothing more than a fallacy.