Dark Knight Megathread

[Crater]

We'll agree to disagree with TBN, I don't know how getting rid of the mana cost on an ability you ideally only use once a minute (to avoid dps loss outside of raid buffs) and upping the cd to be in line with the other tanks CD's is a "Nerf" but thats besides the point.

If you understand the theory that using TBN more than once per minute is a DPS loss because it drags an Edge outside of raid buffs, then you should realize that removing the Dark Arts charge entirely is automatically a nerf in a DPS-optimized scenario because it means you can't shift an Edge from your 60s window to your 120s window. Realistically though, we should also recognize that "You can only use it once per minute" is a bit of an outdated viewpoint, because the only 60s raid buff is Trick Attack, and Ninja isn't exactly mandatory these days. Realistically, it's more like "You can use TBN all you want on every odd-numbered minute, but you want to use it exactly once on every even-numbered minute."

(There is a problem with the skill there, in that DPS optimization does require that you limit your usages of TBN when you should be encouraged to use it as often as possible in situations where it will break, but the solution to that is to allow the storage of multiple charges, not to remove the interaction entirely.)

However, outside of DPS-optimized scenarios, where we only need consider its defensive properties, TBN's most valuable trait is its shorter, 15-second recast compared to the other tank skills. In a sustained-damage situation, like a dungeon pull, TBN's shield is roughly equivalent to a 1500 potency shield. On a 15s recast, the mitigation throughput there is roughly 100p/sec. What you are asking for is an 800 potency HoT to be added to it, in exchange for increasing the cooldown to 25s. That reduces its mitigation throughput to 92p/sec, including the heal. That is an enormous loss of power in those sustained-damage situations.

On top of that, you're asking for the heal to come in the least useful form possible: a weak, 200p/tick HoT. If we're talking about a tankbuster situation rather than sustained incoming damage, that 200p HoT is going to do exactly as much to save you from any followup damage as the current version of TBN. The useful version of what you're asking for, which is still a nerf, is an instant 800 potency heal. But that's not even an area where TBN even needs help; healing and shielding are both flat-value mitigation/recovery mechanics, and in terms of flat-value mitigation/recovery, TBN is already very strong, at roughly 1500 equivalent potency to HoC's 900 and Holy Sheltron's 1000, though Bloodwhetting definitely rules that particular roost at 2000.

Because of that high amount of flat-value mitigation, TBN acquits itself quite well against incoming damage that lands in the range of 40-60% of your max HP (which, realistically, is the most relevant tank damage in high-end content, because it tends to come while the healers are busy with their own mechanics or party healing, instead of the fight grinding to a halt for a very slow, telegraphed heavy tankbuster to come in). On a per-use basis, it tends to be marginally more effective than the other skills at the point of impact, then marginally less effective once the other skills' healing has come in. This is already completely fair and in-line with the other tank skills, because that 'marginally less effective in total' drawback is more than made up for by the lower 15-second cooldown.

Where TBN does fall short, in comparison to the other tank skills, is against the kind of extremely-heavy tankbuster - something dealing 90-120% of your max HP after Rampart, Shadow Wall, etc - where flat-value mitigation and healing has relatively little value. In those cases, TBN does fall massively behind the other skills, but the solution is not to give it more flat-value mitigation and healing, but rather to pair it with the percentage-based mitigation that gives the other skills their huge advantage to begin with. This is the purpose of Oblation, except Oblation is too weak. The solution here isn't to change TBN, but the change Oblation to make it better at shoring up this particular weakness of TBN.

Ultimately, there's little value to be gained in adding a HoT to TBN, and the skill is mostly just fine the way it is (aside from needing to allow you to store multiple DA charges), offering unique gameplay from the other tanks' equivalent skills, with a healthy balance of advantages and disadvantages that make it sometimes-better, sometimes-worse than its counterparts. That's what balance in game design is supposed to look like, and it's what we should be encouraging and asking for more of.
In the one area where TBN falls so short that it's unfit for purpose, it has a companion skill meant to help it through: Oblation - except that Oblation is meant to make TBN feel powerful in those scenarios, but is so weak itself that it only manages to make TBN feel slightly-less-weak. Oblation absolutely should get a buff (or more involved rework) that makes it effective enough to serve its purpose when paired with TBN.


But, no, it should absolutely not be changed into a risk-free skill with a slightly more potent effect in exchange for a massive nerf to its strongest and most useful point, it's short recast time. If that's what you want out of a tank, three out of four of the tanks in this game are already giving you exactly what you're asking for. You don't need all of them to cater to your specific tastes at the expense of those of us who prefer this skill the way it is.

I agree with this sooooo much and honestly I feel that many that are calling for TBN to just be turned into a 25 second recast defensive with no MP cost are just repeating what others, particularly a certain popular streamer, have said without really stopping to think about what the ripple effects of such changes would result in.

Yeah, the fact that these bandwagon ideas are catching on so much and seem to just be oblivious to the actual effects of what they're asking for is really alarming.

Ignoring playstyle issues in favour of talking about efficacy - and my position has always been that post-5.0 DRK has had playstyle issues, but not efficacy ones - Dark Knight's current position is probably best described as 'in a decent spot, but its position there is precarious'. It's definitely been shortchanged in a handful of key places, and it has some legitimate QoL issues, but it also has some pretty strong advantages that make it uniquely well-suited to tanking certain parts of the current raid tier, and many of these common suggestions are people basically explicitly asking for those advantages to be nerfed and taken away in exchange for miniscule improvements to convenience and basically fixing Xeno's personal pet peeves.

What a lot of people actually seem to want is a glamour prism that lets you play Warrior with a Dark Knight skin on top and all your skills nerfed by 5%.