RIP MNK 1.x - 5.x

[Rika007]

It takes damn near malicious compliance to arrive at many of those "answers" to player feedback, though...

"Hi, I'd like my kit not to be unnecessarily clunky or lacking in any competitive reason to be taken over others in the same role," for instance =/= "I'd sure love to lose most of my uniqueness and merely exchange one manner of clunkiness only for another (that is even worse at lower ping) only to still lack any competitive reason to be taken over others in the same role."

I assume you are talking about the NIN changes seeing as the only part of my post that referenced Ping was the Mudra rework. If not you can ignore my response.

Your acting like they literally just table flipped in response to the first request of a rework and that was it, when we both know that isn't true. In terms of the Mudra's if I'm remembering my patches correctly it was 6 and a half years between initial NIN release to the GCD Mudra rework of Shadowbringers, and between that there was either 3 or 4 attempts to speed up the workings of the Mudra in different patches (along with the actual changes to Ninja as a job each expansion). Maybe that doesn't seem much like to you, and maybe the fact that the end result doesn't please you makes all those attempts mean absolutely nothing, but the dev team did try to make honest attempts at fixing it. (And this goes for every other change they have done that I listed above).


As for lacking any competitive reason to be taken over others in the same role... uhhh.... what? Ninja is literally the highest overall rDPS on average on that site not to be mentioned over all 4 fights of the recent savage tier right now. It's a freaking competitive job.

[Shurrikhan]

I assume you are talking about the NIN changes seeing as the only part of my post that referenced Ping was the Mudra rework. If not you can ignore my response.

There are a number of other jobs, such as SMN, MCH, WAR, and DRK, who were changed for similar reasons, and to similarly mixed results. Some parts of those changes were positive, but oftentimes the bulk was only tangentially relevant to the issues people had with the job or were sold as a solution to X (say, MCH ping dependence, DRK DA spam, or pet unresponsiveness) that merely replaced one issue with a close relative (Hypercharge instead of Wildfire, Edge instead of DA, pet abilities locking you out of other actions and, initially, ghosting, rather than having pet action queues, etc., etc.).

Your acting like they literally just table flipped in response to the first request of a rework and that was it, when we both know that isn't true.

No, I'm not. Were that the case, each "table flip" wouldn't have taken 4 to 24 months when so many of the perceived issues were well noted in pre-patch.

In terms of the Mudra's if I'm remembering my patches correctly it was 6 and a half years between initial NIN release to the GCD Mudra rework of Shadowbringers, and between that there was either 3 or 4 attempts to speed up the workings of the Mudra in different patches (along with the actual changes to Ninja as a job each expansion).

Link? There was no palpable difference on the users' end from which to assume that the only way to properly allow mudras to queue was to put them on the GCD, whereas there was an example (HW-era Empyreal Arrow, a weaponskill which incurred but did not respect the GCD and could therefore be weaved much like a oGCD) of a skill being queueable even as a second action within a given GCD gap. We already had an example of a way to let sequential mudras queue properly and not create an imbalance between low- and high-ping players that nonetheless would not force them onto the GCD. Instead, we merely forced the time it takes to actually cast each mudra to that of mid-high-ping player and pulled it onto the GCD... and then squashed an entire rotational element (Shadowfang) into a Sonic Break-lite to make up the difference in effective rotational uptime?

Maybe that doesn't seem much like to you, and maybe the fact that the end result doesn't please you makes all those attempts mean absolutely nothing, but the dev team did try to make honest attempts at fixing it. (And this goes for every other change they have done that I listed above).

Then I suspect we define "honest" rather differently.

As for lacking any competitive reason to be taken over others in the same role... uhhh.... what? Ninja is literally the highest overall rDPS on average on that site not to be mentioned over all 4 fights of the recent savage tier right now. It's a freaking competitive job.

NIN is only a top dog at the 60th percentile and below. It quickly falls to about 5th place by the 80th percentile.

Meanwhile, let's look at how MCH or DRK, in their simplifications, have faired relative to StB or HW, respectively?